Weizenbock / Dunkleweizen Parti-Gyle Recipe Critique!

[specharka]

I love, love, LOVE malty German beers -- IMHO, they are superior to English and American styles by a wide margin. So what better way to showcase the incredible complexity of both weizenbock and dunkleweizen than a parti-gyle brew that tames both styles?

Please note that this is my first attempt at either a weizenbock or dunkleweizen so I am completely amenable to recipe critiques. But whatever grainbill I come up with has to be suitable for both styles. Welp, here it goes...

Dunkleweizenbock (DWB)

Batch Size: 3G
Mash Efficiency: 85%

Estimated OG (1): 1.075
Estimated FG (1): 1.017
IBU (1): 30

Estimated OG (2): 1.055
Estimated FG (2): 1.012
IBU (2): 20

7.75 lb Great Western wheat malt
4.25 lb Weyermann Munich I (10°L)
0.65 lb Weyermann Caramunich (60°L)
0.35 lb Chocolate malt (350°L)

(1) 1.00 oz Styrian Goldings (4 AAU @ FWH)
(1) 1.00 oz Styrian Goldings (4 AAU @ flameout)
(2) 0.75 oz Styrian Goldings (3 AAU @ 60 min)

1. Dough in grains at 128°F with a mash thickness of 1.25 qt/lb for a 20-minute protein rest. Add ~4.5 qt boiling water to raise mash temperature to 145°F and rest for 30 minutes. Add another ~4.5 qt boiling water to raise mash temperature to 156°F and rest for another 30 minutes. Decoct 8.0 qt of stiff mash, bring to boil and return to mash, raising mash temperature by 10°F and rest for 10 minutes.
   
2. Drain mash tun of first runnings, collecting approximately 15 qt @ 1.071 SG. Batch sparge with 21 qt water at 168°F, collecting 21 qt @ 1.024 SG. Combine 10 qt of first runnings and 8 qt of second runnings for weizenbock (1). Combine 5 qt of first runnings and 13 qt of second runnings for dunkleweizen (2).
   
3. Boil both beers for 90 minutes, adding hops as shown above.
   
4. Chill weizenbock (1) to 48°F and pitch 2L starter of WY2214 (Oktoberfest). Ferment near 50°F for ten days, allowing beer to free-rise to 65°F for four days. Rack to secondary, then gradually lower temperature to 32-36°F and lager for at least 8 weeks. Bottle to medium-low carbonation.
   
5. Chill dunkleweizen (2) to 64°F and pitch 1L starter of WY3068 (Weihenstephan Weizen). Allow beer to free-rise to ambient, and maintain above 68°F for 2-3 weeks. Cold crash and bottle to medium-high carbonation.

Any input is more than welcome! :rockin:

 

[specharka]

Bueller? Bueller?

 

[jmcquesten]

I personally would scrap the dunkelweizen and just do a double batch of weizenbock, but I am really happy with the weizenbock that I've been making. I think the 2 are too close to go through the trouble of the party gyle. Sorry if this doesn't help.

Also, weizenbocks are typically fermented with hefe yeast (not lager yeast). If you use lager yeast, you're probably closer to a dopplebock. If that's what you're shooting for, go for it. It's confusing because it's a bock, which are usually strong lagers, but weizenbock is an exception. Aventinus is a weizenbock, but tastes like a stronger dunkelweizen, which tastes like a hefeweizen with toffee, raisiny, carmely flavors. A dopplebock shouldn't have any of the banana/clove flavors found in the 3 weizens listed above.

 

[specharka]

I personally would scrap the dunkelweizen and just do a double batch of weizenbock, but I am really happy with the weizenbock that I've been making. I think the 2 are too close to go through the trouble of the party gyle. Sorry if this doesn't help.

Also, weizenbocks are typically fermented with hefe yeast (not lager yeast). If you use lager yeast, you're probably closer to a dopplebock. If that's what you're shooting for, go for it. It's confusing because it's a bock, which are usually strong lagers, but weizenbock is an exception. Aventinus is a weizenbock, but tastes like a stronger dunkelweizen, which tastes like a hefeweizen with toffee, raisiny, carmely flavors. A dopplebock shouldn't have any of the banana/clove flavors found in the 3 weizens listed above.

Yeah, I did some research after I wrote this and found out they're not supposed to be lagers. However, I have had an Aventinus eisbock which used a significant portion of wheat in the grist -- but it certainly did not have the same banana / clove punch as a hefe.

I still want to parti-gyle this one, but maybe the answer is to use hefe yeast for both of them and ferment on the cooler side. I much prefer clove to banana. That, and I could target a wider OG range (say 1.090 and 1.040).

Thanks for the input.

 

[jmcquesten]

Sorry, I wasn't clear about that. I was referring to the Aventinus weizenbock, not the eisbock. The weizenbock definitely has the banana/clove. I've never had the eisbock, so I can't comment on it. I like the banana/clove balance on the hefeweizen yeast at 65° fermentation temp. Have you considered doing a hefeweizen and a weizenbock? You could mash the wheat and other base grain, split it, then either steep the specialty grain or mash them separately to add to the weizenbock.

This is starting to get me interested in doing this. It is getting towards "hefeweizen season".