Weird taste in all my extracts

[DreBourbon]

Ive been brewing for 4 months and Ive tried partial boils, DME, LME in my extracts kits and I find they all end up with that weird cider or almost vinegar taste. Sometimes I rehidrate my yeast and sometimes no. I ferment for about 1 week and I usually transfer to carboy and let it clear for another 2months. I don't know If Im doing something wrong of this is just what an extract tastes like. I just bought a mash tun and made a sparge arm and Im moving up to all grain in the hopes of losing that weird taste. Has anyone else had this problem?

 

[RepealProhibition]

What kind of yeast and what fermentation temperature?

 

[Mexibilly]

Post your average recipe and water.
Ph could play a factor.
I only secondary for fruit additions or long-term aging.
I used RO water with extracts and primaried 2-3 weeks then bottled.
I would use a neutral water and primary 3 weeks then package.
Never had the off tastes you're describing.

 

[brewbama]

It's pretty important to nail this down. This is not what extract tastes like -- you can make award winning beers with extract most of which do not include cidery/vinegar off flavors. If this is a sanitation or temp issue your all grain will have the same result. I recommend you place the entire batch in a cold fridge for a few weeks to see if the flavor improves. If it improves your fermenting temps are too high.

Here's what John Palmer in 'How to Brew' says about these off flavors:

"If it smells like vinegar.

Cause 1: Bacteria In this case, it probably is. Aceto bacteria (vinegar producing) and Lacto bacteria (lactic acid producing) are common contaminates in breweries. Sometimes the infection will produce sweet smells like malt vinegar, other times they will produce cidery smells. It will depend on which bug is living in your wort. Aceto bacteria often produce ropy strands of jelly which can be a good visual indicator, as can excessive cloudiness, after several weeks in the fermentor (although some cloudiness is not unusual, especially in all-grain beers).
Cure: If you don't like the taste, then pour it out. Lactic infections are desired in some beer styles.

Cause 2: Wild Yeast/Bacteria Two other bugs are also common, Brettanomyces and Pediococcus. Brettanomyces is supposed to smell like horse sweat or a horse blanket. Raise your hand if you know what a horse smells like. From sweat, I mean. Anyone? I think Brettanomyces smells like leather, myself. Pediococcus can produce diacetyl and acidic aromas and flavors.

One man's garbage can be another man's gold though. These two cultures and Lacto bacteria are actually essential to the Belgian Lambic beer styles. Under other circumstances and styles, beers that taste like Lambics would be discarded instead of being carefully nurtured and blended over a two year period. Lambic beers have a pronounced tartness with fruity overtones. This type of beer is very refreshing and is excellent with heavy food.

Cure: Be meticulous in your sanitation or investigate Lambic brewing."

ref: http://howtobrew.com/book/section-4/is-my-beer-ruined/common-problems


"Cidery flavors can have several causes but are often the result of adding too much cane or corn sugar to a recipe. One component of a cidery flavor is acetaldehyde which has a green-apple character. It is a common fermentation byproduct and different yeasts will produce different levels of it depending on the recipe and temperature. [But I doubt that's your problem. If not a sanitation issue, I'll bet it's fermentation temps.] Cidery flavors are encouraged by warmer than normal temperatures and can be decreased by lagering.

If it is caused by aceto bacteria, then there is nothing to be done about it. Keep the fruit flies away from the fermentor next time."

ref: http://howtobrew.com/book/section-4/is-my-beer-ruined/common-off-flavors

 

[DreBourbon]

I ferment at around 60 Degrees Fahrenheit. My pails might need replacement. No fruit flies here, its winter.

 

[Stillraining]

Whats the oldest beer you have still bottled on the shelf with this issue?

A lot of that cidery taste that I have gotten using DME will disappear after bottle conditioning/carbing for a min of 2 months. If you haven't waited that long try it..you may be quite surprised that its totally gone.

Ya I know the wait is a killer..just brew another batch or 3 and forget about it for awhile and see what happens..

BTW...Welcome to all grain its a hoot.

 

[GHBWNY]

Ive been brewing for 4 months and Ive tried partial boils, DME, LME in my extracts kits and I find they all end up with that weird cider or almost vinegar taste. Sometimes I rehidrate my yeast and sometimes no. I ferment for about 1 week and I usually transfer to carboy and let it clear for another 2months. I don't know If Im doing something wrong of this is just what an extract tastes like. I just bought a mash tun and made a sparge arm and Im moving up to all grain in the hopes of losing that weird taste. Has anyone else had this problem?

Probably not particular just to extracts. More universal, like yeast and/or ferm temp. If it's a "green apple" taste, it may be acetaldehyde, which is "an intermediate compound in the formation of alcohol" (Palmer) which simply means the beer is too young and needs more conditioning time. If it's more cidery, it could be a matter of too warm a ferm temp, which cold-crashing for a couple weeks can help. If it's more of a vinegary taste, it could be aceto-bacteria, which is an infection, which is incurable and indicates you need better cleaning/sanitation/handling care prior to and during brewing/fermentation.

 

[Calder]

My suspicion is that you have an infection, and it is occurring while in secondary.

Have you tasted it going from primary to secondary? Did it have this flavor then?

What do you secondary in? If Buckets, then that could be an issue with letting in too much O2. Carboys are best, with air-space kept to a minimum.

No need to secondary most beers.

As Brewbama said, it probably is not the extract, and you need to figure out what it is, or you will get the same thing with your AG brews.

 

[DreBourbon]

Thanks guys. I'm gonna change up my tubing too.

 

[bigdaddybrew]

You may not be giving the yeast enough time to "clean up" because you note transferring to a secondary after one week. Leave it in primary for 3 weeks then bottle, no secondary and see if this improves the flavor.

 

[RM-MN]

You may not be giving the yeast enough time to "clean up" because you note transferring to a secondary after one week. Leave it in primary for 3 weeks then bottle, no secondary and see if this improves the flavor.

This may only be part of the solution. The other part may be fermentation temperature. The best way to avoid the off flavors of esters is to ferment cool but if you keep the beer too cool the yeast will drop out before they finish the cleanup. Start the ferment cool but after 5 to 7 days let the temperature rise to room temp to encourage the yeast to complete breaking down the intermediate products like acetaldehyde.

 

[DreBourbon]

I just always read not to keep in primary more than 7 days. Guess that's not accurate?

 

[DreBourbon]

Just kegged an IPA and used DME for the first time and no off flavors. Must be my local providers' LME.

 

[RepealProhibition]

I just always read not to keep in primary more than 7 days. Guess that's not accurate?

I had heard two weeks before visiting this forum but it seems like more of the norm is to only rack to a secondary if you're aging for months. I'm planning on making an imperial stout and a strong belgian, both of those I'll rack to a secondary after primary fermentation is complete but only because they'll age for months. With an IPA or porter I think leaving it in the primary for a few weeks isn't a problem.

 

[DreBourbon]

Ok thanks.

 

[Mismost]

I never had cider vinegar flavor, but using my home water my brews had a "line of flavor" or wang....whatever you want to call it.

Switched to store bought spring and RO and that wang left, beer is better.

Just bought a chest freezer and a temp control unit to better manage my ferment temps. Hoping for more improvements with better control and will be able to cold crash like all the big boys here!

 

[DreBourbon]

I have a keezer. What's cold crashing?

 

[theseeker4]

I just always read not to keep in primary more than 7 days. Guess that's not accurate?

This is based on old beliefs about yeast auto lysis and commercial scale production. With modern brewers yeast on a home brew scale, it is not a concern until a month or two has passed. Beer flavor can benefit from staying in the primary until bottling, and though some transfer to improve clarity, you can get crystal clear beer without using a secondary as well.

 

[theseeker4]

I have a keezer. What's cold crashing?

Cold crashing is bringing the beer temperature to near freezing for a few days or more in order to cause more yeast and protein to fall out of the beer, making clearer beer. It is generally done before bottling or kegging the beer, to avoid transferring all the debris with the beer. Some people use gelatin to assist with the cashing out of the proteins.