Weihenstephaner Hefe Weissbier Clone???

[Gnomebrewer]

Couple of questions:

1). What would be the difference in the final product be if instead of adding 0.5oz hops at boil start, I instead threw them in as FWH?

2). I've been reading about adding some flaked oats to render a creamyness and increased mouthfeel in the final product; would flaked wheat do essentially the same thing while being more authentic (since its a hefe)

If one were to add flaked wheat, how much should one add?

Thanks

1. A bit more hop flavour. Not much difference with the small amount of hops needed for a hef.
2. Flaked wheat isn't authentic in a hefeweizen. It's used in witbiers (Belgian wheat beer). You can add oats or flaked wheat if you want, but I wouldn't.

 

[UltraHighABV]

If I'm trying to get some more creaminess, would adding either one do the trick, and if so, how much would one add?

I know it wouldn't be authentic, but I'm trying to tailor it to what I think I would like.

If I add flaked oats/wheat, am I not allowed to call it a hefeweizen? What would I call it?!?!?

 

[Gnomebrewer]

If I'm trying to get some more creaminess, would adding either one do the trick, and if so, how much would one add?

I know it wouldn't be authentic, but I'm trying to tailor it to what I think I would like.

If I add flaked oats/wheat, am I not allowed to call it a hefeweizen? What would I call it?!?!?

You are welcome to add whatever you want to your beer - that's one of the best things about homebrewing! This thread is for discussion of a Weihenstephaner Weissbier clone though - in which you would not use oats/flaked wheat.

5 to 10% oats is often added to witbiers for creaminess, and all of the wheat can be unmalted (about 40 to 50% wheat) which could be flaked or torrefied.

 

[luckybeagle]

Reviving this thread from the dead to ask a probably obvious/novice question.

I followed a similar recipe for my first AG brew the other day:
6 gallon batch size
60% German Wheat malt
40% German Pilsner malt
1.25 oz Hallertau Blanc 8.8% AA
1/2# rice hulls
Weihenstephan 3068 yeast

60 minute mash @ 151
60 minute hop addition
60 minute boil

Most of the Weihenstephaner Hefeweizen clones I've found call for a 90-minute boil with a 60 minute hop addition. I assumed 60 minute boil with hop addition right at the start of boil. All my LHBS had were 8.8% Hallertau blanc pellet hops--most of the recipes call for 3.5% +/-. I also pitched pretty warm (user error with plate chiller - ~72F, I'm sure it'll be banana-y). What sort of effects do you think these variables will have on overall flavor, ABV, etc?

Sorry, new guy here!

 

[RPh_Guy]

1.25 oz Hallertau Blanc 8.8% AA

Hallertau Blanc is a very different hop than the traditional german hallertauer mittelfrueh, so the hop flavor might not be quite the same, but a 60 minute addition shouldn't have much flavor contribution.

It's important to calculate IBU. I calculate around 37 IBU for your recipe, which is far too high (too bitter) for this style.

60 vs 90 minute boil won't make much difference. Might be a little less malty.

 

[luckybeagle]

Hallertau Blanc is a very different hop than the traditional german hallertauer mittelfrueh, so the hop flavor might not be quite the same, but a 60 minute addition shouldn't have much flavor contribution.

It's important to calculate IBU. I calculate around 37 IBU for your recipe, which is far too high (too bitter) for this style.

60 vs 90 minute boil won't make much difference. Might be a little less malty.

Ahh dang. They didn’t have any other types of Hallertau hops at the store unfortunately, so I took an uneducated guess. Thanks for the info. I’ll report back once I taste it. Looks like I need to read up on AAUs in the meantime

 

[Gnomebrewer]

90 minute boils are normally called for to reduce DMS with pils malt. I think this is mosly debunked now though. I normally only boil for 45 mins and never get DMS even with German Pils malt.

Higher alpha hops won't matter - I've used centennial before for bittering a hef and couldn't notice it, but as RPh Guy said, you need to drop the amount or it'll be too bitter. I typically aim for about 13IBU (the sourness from the yeast balances the malt reducing the need for more bitterness).

 

[SenorbaC]

Firstly, this is a very old thread.

And no, you won't get the same flavours using WB-06 (yes, I've used WB06). It is quite a good yeast, but much cleaner than WY3068 (nowhere near as much banana or clove). You'd still make a nice beer if that's all you can get, but it won't taste like a weihenstephan weissbier.

This is an old post, but I want to share my two cents. I have a friend from Germany that is really into the Weissbier from Weihenstephaner. After read a good post related to some cloning efforts I tried to do my clone. All my previous efforts with liquid (Wyeast) and dry yeast (WB-06) failed to reach the cloves (phenols) profile until I tried T-58, based in some research comments, fermented 2 days @ 18C and then let the fermenter go up to 25 C for 10 more days to allow the yeast to sediment a bit. Cold-crashed for 4 days and the final result received a “It’s the same beer I used to drank in Germany…” feedback from my friend. Love this strain but you need to use it only if looking for a esterly and high phenol profile in your beer.

 

[Poobah58]

This is an old post, but I want to share my two cents. I have a friend from Germany that is really into the Weissbier from Weihenstephaner. After read a good post related to some cloning efforts I tried to do my clone. All my previous efforts with liquid (Wyeast) and dry yeast (WB-06) failed to reach the cloves (phenols) profile until I tried T-58, based in some research comments, fermented 2 days @ 18C and then let the fermenter go up to 25 C for 10 more days to allow the yeast to sediment a bit. Cold-crashed for 4 days and the final result received a “It’s the same beer I used to drank in Germany…” feedback from my friend. Love this strain but you need to use it only if looking for a esterly and high phenol profile in your beer.

I Must try!!!

 

[ebbelwoi]

All my previous efforts with liquid (Wyeast) and dry yeast (WB-06) failed to reach the cloves (phenols) profile

Did you try a ferulic rest around 45C/114F?

 

[SenorbaC]

Did you try a ferulic rest around 45C/114F?

yes, also in my previous brews. There was some clove but it really improved with T-58

Ps. Nice user name

 

[ebbelwoi]

yes, also in my previous brews. There was some clove but it really improved with T-58

Ps. Nice user name

Thanks.

About 6 months ago, I toyed with the idea of trying T-58 in a Weizen, and had it in an online shopping cart for quite a while, but ended up not being able to pull the trigger. Your post has got me considering it again...

MaischeMalzundMehr has two Weizen recipes that call for T-58. Unfortunately neither has much input from people who've tried it.

What was your pitch rate for the T-58, in grams per liter?

 

[SenorbaC]

Thanks.

About 6 months ago, I toyed with the idea of trying T-58 in a Weizen, and had it in an online shopping cart for quite a while, but ended up not being able to pull the trigger. Your post has got me considering it again...

MaischeMalzundMehr has two Weizen recipes that call for T-58. Unfortunately neither has much input from people who've tried it.

What was your pitch rate for the T-58, in grams per liter?

I used the whole pack (11.5 grs) in 22 liters of most. Fermentation should start slow @18F to stress the yeast to produce phenols. Another advise is to do a double decoction to improve color and breadiness in the beer based in sillysir.com advise for batch#3. Attached is a snapshot from my brew plan.

Happy brewing!

 

[SenorbaC]

I used the whole pack (11.5 grs) in 22 liters of most. Fermentation should start slow @18F to stress the yeast to produce phenols. Another advise is to do a double decoction to improve color and breadiness in the beer based in sillysir.com advise for batch#3. Attached is a snapshot from my brew plan.

Happy brewing!

Sorry for the typo, fermentation should start at 18C…

 

[ebbelwoi]

I finally got around to ordering some T-58. I had some wheat DME that was expiring this month (1/2 Muntons, 1/2 Briess), so I did a quick 7-liter extract batch with the T-58.

I fermented it in a corny keg with a blowoff tube at around 19C for the first two days, raised it to 23-24C for a day, then put a spunding valve on it and kept it at 25C until a total of 12 days of fermentation. Had to top it off with quite a bit of CO2 to get to where I wanted.

I'm drinking it now (on my 3rd or 4th one) and am very pleased with the results. Prominent banana esters, no unwanted tartness. I don't detect much spiciness, and it's clearer than expected, but it definitely has potential.

This was just a quick and easy trial to see what the yeast could do. I hope I can get the same or better results when I try it with an all-grain batch and a ferulic acid rest.

Thanks for the encouragement, @SenorbaC!

 

[1Pivoman]

I started brewing 25+ years ago to make Weissbier, I was a German major and studied in Vienna for a semester. I came back disappointed that German imports don’t taste nearly as fresh here since they’re pasteurized.
I recently tried a couple different steps in my last (and best) Weissbier I made. I used 50% German wheat, 30% Pilsner and 20% Light Munich. From what I read Weihenstephan uses 60% wheat, 20% Pilsner, 20% Light Munich. I followed Schneider Weisse’s mash schedule, which is mash in at 35C for 10 min, heat to 45C for 10 min, heat to 50C for 10 min, then heat to 64C for 5 min. A decoction is then pulled, heated to 67C for 10 min, 70C for 20 min, then boiled for 5 min. Mix to mash out at 75C.
The other step I did is called Hopfentriebe (I think). Once fermentation produces a prominent rocky head, the top is skimmed to remove hop and protein particulates. They appear dark in color, easy to scoop off with a sanitized steel spoon. Just be careful (obviously) to be quick and careful about it so as not to infect the batch. I did this twice on day 2, and once each of the next two days. The result was a MUCH smoother character in the finished beer, it didn’t have any rough edges and was worth the effort. I now see why the Germans do this top cropping. Easy to do in a SS Brewbucket or similar fermenter.