Weak taste.

[Allen]

I'm as new as you get to brewing. I've read a lot but experienced little. My first brew from a DME kit is a Bavarian Lager. I didn't know the lager temp requirements before ordering this kit. I don't yet but soon will have a fridge dedicated to brewing. In the mean time I made the best use I could of cold well water and occasional ice additions. My well water is around 55 degrees Fahrenheit. I have been able to keep the fermentation bucket surrounded by water ranging from 58 to 61 degrees at all times over a period of about 2 weeks. Yesterday I transferred to a secondary but it seems fermentation has stopped at 1.015 after transferring. It was still bubbling very slowly sometime in the day or so before at least that I'm sure of. I have read that beer needs at least a month to develop most of it's flavors. My main question is should it be weak or strong when very early. I tasted this one tonight and the taste is good but fairly weak and almost watered down tasting. I am not a lover of very hopped or heavy beers yet (my taste is evolving) so I leaned to the side of caution in brewing times and hopping. I did not dry hop. This beer is easily enjoyable and drinkable especially on a hot day as it is already even though it lacks the bottled carbonation. Nothing unpleasant about it aside from being a bit on the weak side. What should I expect once it is aged bottled and chilled? Will it get weaker or stronger with time?

Thanks in advance for any comments. I would really love some input.

Allen

 

[Janx]

I doubt you'll see too much change in flavor. Beer gets neither "weaker" nor "stronger" flavored in time. In particularly hoppy beers, some of the bitter edge softens with time. Some of the byproducts of fermentation fade and the overall character gets cleaner with age.

Oh, and it gets bubbles! Bubbles can make all the difference.

Sounds like you made a nice light lager. It'll be great as the days start to warm. Next time, bump up the malt and hops a bit if you want to try something bigger. Cheers

 

[digdan]

Nothing wrong with not being a hophead. The first three beers I brewed, were from a kit, I think kits try to cut costs where they shouldn't. All three of those beers tasted like beer flavored water, and I thought I was just a crappy brewer. For my sake, the problem was the technique and the kit, not me.

I eventually started throwing some liquid malt extract, or DME in my brewing pot for good measure. That good measure made my beer taste a lot better.

If you dont' want a weak taste then I would suggest your start piecing some recipes together from scratch. Being a home brewer, you want to come up with something you can call "Your own". I ussually start my recipes from something posted on Beer Tools Recipe Database

If you did not brew that from a kit I would be suprised, since most kits lack maltly love.


I hope I could help,
thx

 

[RichBrewer]

One thing I've noticed is that for me beers tend to taste weaker before they are conditioned and carbonated. They are not weaker it is just my perception that they are. Maybe the carbonation changes the mouth feel and taste?
I wouldn't worry too much about it. Sounds like it will be a good beer.

 

[boo boo]

In my experience with kits, you have to add DME instead of corn sugar to get a better tasting brew. Was the yeast you used truely a lager yeast? Most kits have what they call yeast under the cap to make a kit "lager". The kit do make a lager type of brew using that yeast, just not the same taste as a true lager yeast and tempertures would make.
Once it is aged a while it will taste better. Sounds like you are gaining experience in beer making, congrats.

 

[Kaiser]

My main question is should it be weak or strong when very early. I tasted this one tonight and the taste is good but fairly weak and almost watered down tasting. I am not a lover of very hopped or heavy beers yet (my taste is evolving) so I leaned to the side of caution in brewing times and hopping. I did not dry hop. This beer is easily enjoyable and drinkable especially on a hot day as it is already even though it lacks the bottled carbonation. Nothing unpleasant about it aside from being a bit on the weak side. What should I expect once it is aged bottled and chilled? Will it get weaker or stronger with time?

Try to find some commercial examples of this style (for example Paulner Helles, Spaten Helles) and see what this style is supposed to tase like. I have heard other say that this style is rather low in flavor, which I can understand since these are pale lightly hopped lager beers. A but good Helles should go down easily but shouldn't taste watered down. There should only be enough bitterness to offset the sweetness of the malt.

Kai

 

[SteveM]

Carbonation makes a big difference in perceived taste. Keep in mind that a big component of taste is actually smell, and that tiny bubbles popping is releasing a lot of molecules into the air near your nose. This is why people with colds will often complain that food tastes bland. Once the beer can develop a head, the flavor will seem more robust.

 

[Mr_Turtlehead]

I've been having the same problems Allen, and it's very frustrating to go thru all of the effort and waiting only to have a watery brew. I've been thinking, "maybe should jump to AG, maybe should get a keg system, maybe should throw in the towel like rhynostylee did a few weeks ago and just buy craft brews..." But my latest brew last week was a partial mash and I'm hoping <fingers crossed> that the taste will improve. I've also been thinking, if I cut the amount of water, say to 4 gallons instead of 5, will I get a better taste?

 

[david_42]

Carbonation and knowing the style are very important for lagers and lager-like ales. Flavors will continue to develop, but it's more of a blending than "getting stronger". Reducing the amount of water will certainly concentrate the flavors, as will increasing the amount of extract. But, some styles are just lightly flavored.

I'm a great fan of Brown ales, but my favorite Browns are leaning heavily towards being porters, almost out of style. Pelican's Doryman's Dark is a good example of what I mean.

 

[Allen]

Wow! Looks like I came to the right place. Thanks to all for the good and prompt replies.

The yeast that I used was White Labs WLP830 pitchable vial.

Perhaps this beer is pretty close to what it is supposed to be. Time will tell I guess. It seems pretty well balanced, not really being sweet or bitter. It is supposed to be a light lager. I'm just hoping that it isn't going to be too light. I like lighter beers at times and more flavorful ones as well depending on the moment. Most of my friends are "light", "ice", "bud" types so it should go well and fast with them. lol An easy to share beer is what I wanted so maybe I'm on the right track with this one. We will find out when the time comes to pop a top on a cold one with a few friends.

I probably will use that tip on DME instead of the corn sugar when I bottle it.

I was unsure where to start when I ordered this first kit and was more afraid of brewing a beer that was too strong that only I and one or two other of my friends like. I've learned a bit already with this first one. I won't be afraid to bump up the DME or hops a little in the future, which sounds great to me as I like a bit higher alcohol than this kit was designed to provide even if the flavor does become more pronounced when it's ready. I know "Relax, don't worry, have a homebrew."

I'm not interested in AG yet. Steeping specialty grains and tinkering with the recipe a bit will satisfy my creative curiosity for a while. I like the ease and convenience that extracts allow. I'll probably branch out and try a lot of different styles until I start to get bored with that or hit something I truly love before stepping up to AG, if I ever do.

I make wine as well so I have plenty to keep busy with on the making and certainly more than I can drink alone.

I started a Kolsch also in the interest of hot summertime sharing. Now it's time to figure out what I want. Something that will speak to me. Perhaps something similar to Sierra Nevada's Pale Ale. Maybe just slightly less bitter with slightly more body and alcohol but nothing too dramatic by any means. Any suggestions anyone?

Thx again,

Allen

 

[Allen]

Another thing while I'm on this subject. I don't think I will be using the kits anymore. The Kolsch I brewed was done by finding a recipe and buying the ingredients in bulk. I bought extra on most things since they are common among many styles. I noticed that both the Crystal malt and whole Hallertau hop flowers had significantly more aroma than the ones from the kit that I had bought for the Bavarian Lager. My guess is the kits sit around longer waiting for someone to come along looking for that exact style where as the bulk ingredients probably sell and get replaced a lot faster.

 

[Allen]

A lot of views and few recent posts. Ok maybe I got long winded and what I'm looking for now got drowned out. Sorry.

Now it's time to figure out what I want. Something that will speak to me. Perhaps something similar to Sierra Nevada's Pale Ale. Maybe just slightly less bitter with slightly more body and alcohol but nothing too dramatic by any means. Any suggestions anyone?

And let me add that a good balance between sweetness and hoppiness means a lot to me at the current time.

Extract recipe suggestions please.

I'll have an extra fridge or two soon so lagers can be included.

I'm hooked already and have not even bottled my first beer yet. Is that a bad sign or a good one?

I took the ingredients that I had set aside for a second Kolsch and upped the Crystal 10 to 12 ounces from 8, light DME by 1 and 1/2 pounds for a total of 6.5, bittering hops by 75% and aroma hops to dry hopping after a minute or two in the boil versus just 2 in the boil. I also added 1/2 pound honey that I had and 6 ounces of brown sugar. I only have the slightest idea of what I'm doing and a lot of it may be very wrong. Think it will be drinkable? I didn't have much on hand to work with but I did have a buzz and the mood hit me. I'm not afraid to water/fertilize the lawn with crap so off I went.

And there I go again detracting from my recipe suggestion request. I probably should shut the hell up and read more.

Wort is probably cool enough to pitch yeast anyway. I should go check it.

Thanks,

Allen

 

[m_f]

Hi!
Have simmilar problem, here is what I'm doing:

I just racked an english ordinary bitter on saturday, I used a recipe from a database, but changed the yeast (yeah, my mistake). This yeast is higer attenuation and cleaner profile. oh! I also replaced light DME by XL DME... anyways!

Result: watery perception when I tasted a sample. It was supposed to be light in flavor, but retain some mouthfeel. I know that the perception may change with carbonation but don't want to risk so I bottled some beer in a plastic bottle and primed with sugar (as usual).
In a week I'll squeeze the bottle and if it feels carbonated I'll drink it an see.

If I am not pleased I will carbonate with DME and maybe I may toss some maltodextrine to the boil of the priming solution, but have to check that with more knowlegeable people first (enough experimenting on my own haha).

 

[Allen]

Yup. Wort was cool enough. Pitched the yeast in and the next morning it was bubbling like a blonde. (I married a blonde so I have earned the joking rights.)

If I am not pleased I will carbonate with DME and maybe I may toss some maltodextrine to the boil of the priming solution, but have to check that with more knowlegeable people first (enough experimenting on my own haha).

Sounds good to me m_f but what do I know? I'm newer than you are. lol

Let me know how it turns out.

The first beer that I started this thread with wasn't finished yet though I hadn't been able to tell by watching the airlock. Reading tonight was down from 1.015 to 1.011. That sounds better. I think. I transferred it to my bottling bucket to let it clear more until I'm actually ready to bottle. Still have not been able to Lager it but have kept the temp between 55 and 60. Seems like I read somewhere that this lager yeast can go as high as 63 and still retain most lager characteristics? I can't see it now that it's in the bucket. If it is still at 1.011 this weekend would that be a good time to go ahead and bottle it or should I wait a bit longer? Also, once I bottle it should I go ahead and refrigerate it then or wait a week or so to let the yeast work on the bottling DME a bit? If wait should I do so at room temp or in that cool water bath around 55 to 60 degrees like it has been all along so far?

I didn't taste it again tonight. I was in a bit of a rush and already had Wild Turkey on the palette... Smelled great though. That goes for the beer and the turkey Gotta tooth ache and beer doesn't really help with that. Makes it worse as a matter of fact. Let a little swig of something high proof set on it for about 10 seconds or so and the pain just melts away for a while. Ahhh Actually better than maximum strength Anbesol. Really.

Thanks in advance for any answers, tips, criticism, or whatever you want to throw my way.

PS: One more thing. So far I've got 15 gallons of beer going and none even bottled yet. I'm already sick of washing, rinsing, sanitizing and rinsing some more. I've seen mention of a few rinseless sanitizers. Because I'm lazy and on well water those are REALLY sounding good at this point. Not that I've ever had a bacterial or mineral problem from my well water in wine making or other things yet. I seem to have some kick ass water here. 175 feet deep through mostly solid rock. It was tested a while back. I don't remember the specifics but I do remember that the PH was fairly balanced and the mineral content was varied and elevated but not very high. No contamination present. In anycase, what no rinse sanitizer seems to be the favorite among most of you?

Yeah I get long winded a post much about nothing along with my questions at times. Sorry. Only read and respond to whatever parts you like to. I certainly don't expect anyone to hit it all.

Allen

 

[Mr_Turtlehead]

Once you bottle the lager, you'll want to keep it at fermentation temps or even room temps to carbonate for several weeks-even longer using DME. Mine is going on 2 weeks in the bottle and just starting to carbonate.

I've experimented with bleach, one-step, and iodophore and so far iodophore is my favorite.

I think it's time to see a dentist

 

[Allen]

I was planning on bottling with DME and I'm sure I will probably want to normally but, if it takes longer I may go ahead with the corn sugar on this one if the difference isn't a big one taste wise. I'll retaste it before bottling and see if it's still a bit watery tasting to me and decide from there.

Idophore does seem to be the one I see mentioned the most. I've used Bleach before too. It works great sanitation wise but requires way too much rinsing.

I'm using B-brite right now which seems to work well and is not bad on the rinsing but I've been doing a whole lot of cleaning and it is detracting from the more fun part. The Idophore is sounding pretty good.

You are probably right about that dentist.

 

[homebrewer_99]

To counter that "watery" taste add some Malto-Dextrin in the boil.

I know of a lot of recipes recommend 4-8 oz of the stuff, but believe me, there's no reason to ever use more than 2! Trust me on this on or not.

Most of the brews I use MD in only take 1 oz.