Water worries

[stuknkrvl]

My water sucks. Period. Turn on the faucet and you can smell the chlorine before the water hits the bottom of the sink.

I went to the store and bought natural spring water for my brew. I read the label very closely and made sure it didn't say anything about being purified, and it claims to be sourced from all natural springs.

Anyone have any experience with store bought spring water? It seems to be fermenting great so far (forty eight hours in now), but I'm worried about the mineral content.

Thanks!

 

[bja]

but I'm worried about the mineral content.

Thanks!

What exactly about the mineral content are you worried about?

 

[flars]

Are you fermenting an all grain recipe or an extract? An all grain recipe, depending on ingredients used, may have required some adjustments to the water, especially for pH. An extract recipe is more than likely just fine as long as the water didn't have any overpowering tastes. LME and DME already contain minerals necessary for a good ferment.

 

[stuknkrvl]

bja - I'm talking about pH mostly which from what I read is affected by the calcium levels (gypsum)? please correct me if I'm wrong about that

flars - all grain

This is my first brew and I guess I'm just nervous about it. It's now 60 hours in to the fermentation. I set it up with a blow off tube which it turns out I didn't need after all. Up until last night it was bubbling away fine (checked it about eight hours ago and there was a bubble coming through about once a second), but now I can't tell there's any activity at all.

Just my inexperience talking, but I'm thinking I should go ahead and check the gravity to see where it's at and maybe rouse the yeast? I don't know. I've brewed with a friend before but he ferments it at his house so this is all new territory for me. Any advice would be helpful.

 

[stuknkrvl]

One other thing - I only used one Wyeast smack pack and I didn't make a starter.

Could it be the fermentation is just going slowly? I just don't understand why it would be bubbling so vigorously and then crap out like this already.

 

[bja]

One other thing - I only used one Wyeast smack pack and I didn't make a starter.

Could it be the fermentation is just going slowly? I just don't understand why it would be bubbling so vigorously and then crap out like this already.

It might be finished. Check the gravity and see.

 

[Subdivisions]

One other thing - I only used one Wyeast smack pack and I didn't make a starter.

Could it be the fermentation is just going slowly? I just don't understand why it would be bubbling so vigorously and then crap out like this already.

Yes, that can cause the fermentation to be slower.

Most fermentations start out strong then slow down as the available fermentable sugars decrease. It sounds like it's fine. Let it go for 2 weeks and don't open it up and poke at it. That's how bad things happen.

 

[flars]

Take a SG sample for your first taste after the krausen has fallen. I wouldn't do anything else. Your beer may be close to FG.

What was the style and OG of your beer? Use a hydrometer, not a refractometer, for an accurate SG.

 

[stuknkrvl]

Take a SG sample for your first taste after the krausen has fallen. I wouldn't do anything else. Your beer may be close to FG.

What was the style and OG of your beer? Use a hydrometer, not a refractometer, for an accurate SG.

Spiced pumpkin ale. OG of 1.056. I used Wyeast 1450 which says it attenuates 74-76%, so I'm assuming my FG is gonna be around 1.013 - 1.015.

Why the hydrometer over the refractometer? I have both. I like the refractometer because I don't have to take so large a sample, but I'm not completely opposed to using the hydrometer.

 

[SnakeRidge]

Spiced pumpkin ale. OG of 1.056. I used Wyeast 1450 which says it attenuates 74-76%, so I'm assuming my FG is gonna be around 1.013 - 1.015.

Why the hydrometer over the refractometer? I have both. I like the refractometer because I don't have to take so large a sample, but I'm not completely opposed to using the hydrometer.

Refractometers are not accurate once there is alcohol in the mix. There are formulas out there, but I don't like them. Use the hydrometer and drink the sample when you're done. No waste, and you get to taste what fermenting beer is like.

 

[peterj]

You don't need to take a gravity sample right now. It's way too early and there is really no point. Taking a gravity sample now is only going to tell you that it is in fact fermenting, which you already know. And it will only expose your beer to possible contamination and oxidation.

The active vigorous part of fermentation usually only lasts for about 3-5 days. So it's probably just winding down which is what you're seeing. What temperature is the wort? Are you controlling the temperature at all? The warmer the fermentation is the faster it will proceed (and the more risk of off flavors and fusel alcohols).

One smack pack is probably fine for 5 gallons of 1.056 wort. It's better to make a starter with liquid yeast though. (Starter calculators: http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html, http://www.brewersfriend.com/yeast-pitch-rate-and-starter-calculator/).

Just leave it alone for 2-3 weeks. Then take gravity readings a couple days apart. If it's close to the right range and there's no change go ahead and bottle or keg it.

 

[Gavin C]

Regarding taking a gravity. What will you use the information for. It's of no benefit at this point.

This is your first brew. This is what I would do.

• Put the refractometer and hydrometer back in their boxes.
  
• Keep the Fermenter somewhere dark and cool (beer in the 60's) is a reasonable target.
  
• Forget about it for 2 -3 weeks
  
• Package it up and take a sample for a hydrometer reading at that time.
  
• If bottling put them somewhere warm and dark for 3 weeks (70F is a good target)
  
• Chill some beers
  
• Crack one open and enjoy
  
• Repeat that last step as needed
  

Patience is a virtue with brewing. It is one that will reap rewards. In the interim, buy another bucket or fermenter of your choosing and brew another batch. That will give your idle mind and hands something to do and establish a pipeline of fresh homebrew. The less you dick around with the beer in the fermenter the better I reckon.

 

[MattyIce]

I have used bottled spring water for all my batches. Some turned out great, others not so much. I do not think I will try to blame the water though. Only a couple weeks ago did brew a batch with tap water. I set all my water out for 24 hours to let the chlorine evaporate. At least that is what I heard to do haha. I did find a copy of my water report for the local water district, and everything looked within acceptable parameters. We shall see.

 

[peterj]

Oh yeah, as far as water goes I would recommend reading up on water chemistry before making any mineral additions or antying. There is a lot more that goes into pH and mineral content than just gypsum. These are good reads:

https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/water-knowledge
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=198460

Just ignore anything that talks about RA (residual alkalinity). It's an outdated concept that isn't actually very useful in brewing.

I use this water calculator (http://www.brewersfriend.com/mash-chemistry-and-brewing-water-calculator/) but there are a few others out there. Like Bru'n Water: https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/.

As for this beer, it's probably going to turn out fine. Many people don't worry about water chemistry and still make fine beer. Store bought spring water will probably have a fairly low level of minerals. Since this is a pumpkin beer I'm guessing there is a fair amount of dark and/or crystal malts in the grain bill which probably brought your mash pH into an acceptable range.

 

[peterj]

I have used bottled spring water for all my batches. Some turned out great, others not so much. I do not think I will try to blame the water though. Only a couple weeks ago did brew a batch with tap water. I set all my water out for 24 hours to let the chlorine evaporate. At least that is what I heard to do haha. I did find a copy of my water report for the local water district, and everything looked within acceptable parameters. We shall see.

Setting it out for 24 hours or so will only work if your water district uses free chlorine (Cl2) and not chloramine (NH2Cl). Free chlorine will off gas fairly quickly, but chloramine is much more persistent (which is why many water companies switch to it). It should say in the water report which is used. If it's chloramine you would have needed to use Campden tablets (potassium metabisulfite) or an activated carbon filter to remove it.

 

[stuknkrvl]

What temperature is the wort? Are you controlling the temperature at all?

I was worried it would be too warm at the start, so I had it in a tote with a couple bottles of frozen water. I'm off work today and just now got around to sticking a thermometer strip to the outside of the bucket. Thing didn't even register 64 degrees, so now I'm thinking it's too cold. I took it out of the tote to let it warm up a bit and taking your advice not to jack around with a gravity reading right now.

I really need to get a chest freezer and a temp controller. In the meantime, I think you're right... I need to brew more beer.

Incidentally, this smells amazing.

Thanks for all the advice.

 

[javaking]

I have used spring water (Poland Springs) for all of my batches. All of them have been extracts (and/or partial mash) but I've made a few IPAs and other ales and they have all been pretty decent. For some of the IPAs I added some gypsum (as the recipe called for it) and things turned out well. I figured once I get the basics down then it will be time to focus on changing the water chemistry.

 

[Gavin C]

It could be below 64. It could also be above the upper limit of the fermentometer. If it's not reading you know it's outside the range. Fermentation produces alot of heat. Not taking the lid off might be categorized as not dicking with it. No worries

 

[stuknkrvl]

Not taking the lid off might be categorized as not dicking with it. No worries

Agreed. Won't happen again

 

[Gavin C]

Agreed. Won't happen again

I was guilty of similar crimes with my first batch. Nice pictures BTW. And a good healthy looking krausen to boot.

 

[mabrungard]

My water sucks. Period. Turn on the faucet and you can smell the chlorine before the water hits the bottom of the sink.

I went to the store and bought natural spring water for my brew. I read the label very closely and made sure it didn't say anything about being purified, and it claims to be sourced from all natural springs.

Anyone have any experience with store bought spring water? It seems to be fermenting great so far (forty eight hours in now), but I'm worried about the mineral content.

Thanks!

Water sources in Texas can be very mineralized and may be poor brewing water. However, you don't know that without either testing the water or obtaining other lab reports.

Spring water is a catch-all term that is essentially meaningless in brewing use. Even with a nearly mineral-free spring water like Poland Springs, you still have to by ready for adjusting that water to brew better beer. The one thing that spring water does for you is provide a chlorine free source. But even that isn't really a problem with tap water since a simple treatment like adding a Campden tablet takes care of that.

Don't worry about mineral content since the malt provides almost everything yeast need for their metabolism. You can brew very effectively with distilled water, but its likely to produce blander beer. Having some mineral content is helpful for flavor and having some calcium content is helpful for reducing beerstone and helping the beer clarify.

More than likely, there are water vending machines in your area that sell RO water that can serve as a good starting point for brewing. That is likely less expensive than bottled water and is probably less mineralized.

 

[stuknkrvl]

More than likely, there are water vending machines in your area that sell RO water that can serve as a good starting point for brewing. That is likely less expensive than bottled water and is probably less mineralized.

You're right about that, but I thought RO should be avoided because it's so stripped down.

When you say "a good starting point," do you mean I should just roll with whatever comes out of the vending machine, or should I add anything to it?

 

[Gavin C]

RO water gives you a blank canvas with which to build your own water profile. You can add the minerals as needed to reach a target water. Certain styles favor certain mineral content. This is one of the reasons why geography has often determined what type of beers are brewed in different places.

• Dublin Stout
• Czech Pilsner
• Dortmund style beers
• Burton-on-Trent bitters

are some examples that spring to mind

The other way RO is useful is that if using extract the minerals are largely contained withing the malt extract already, thus negating the need for any other mineral additions. The maltser has already done this bit for you.

That is my simpleminded understanding in any case.

 

[mabrungard]

You're right about that, but I thought RO should be avoided because it's so stripped down.

When you say "a good starting point," do you mean I should just roll with whatever comes out of the vending machine, or should I add anything to it?

As mentioned, what (if anything) to add to the water depends on the style. RO water is a good starting point since its easier to add ions then take them out.

All RO users should have a TDS meter so that they can check the treated water to make sure it has low mineralization.

 

[stuknkrvl]

Well it's bubbling away like crazy again since I pulled it out of the tote this morning. It's still not registering anything on the thermometer I have stuck to the outside of my bucket, which I guess could mean it's too hot, or too cold, or just a really crappy two dollar thermometer... I need a beer now :cross:

Who knew waiting for beer could be this maddening? The struggle is real.

Thanks again for all the advice, everybody. I'll post some stats, pics, and tasting notes when I rack this thing on Mother's Day.

 

[SnakeRidge]

Well it's bubbling away like crazy again since I pulled it out of the tote this morning. It's still not registering anything on the thermometer I have stuck to the outside of my bucket, which I guess could mean it's too hot, or too cold, or just a really crappy two dollar thermometer... I need a beer now :cross:

Who knew waiting for beer could be this maddening? The struggle is real.

Thanks again for all the advice, everybody. I'll post some stats, pics, and tasting notes when I rack this thing on Mother's Day.

Two words, man. Pipe. Line. Get different beers going at the same time and you can mess with one and forget about the others.

 

[Gavin C]

Well it's........ when I rack this thing on Mother's Day.

Racking to a secondary would also be classified as dicking with it IMHO. Just leave it be and save yourself the hassle.

Sounds like you feel the need to tinker. Make a stir plate or something.

 

[stuknkrvl]

Two words, man. Pipe. Line. Get different beers going at the same time and you can mess with one and forget about the others.

Working on it. Have an IPA recipe I want to brew.

 

[stuknkrvl]

Racking to a secondary would also be classified as dicking with it IMHO. Just leave it be and save yourself the hassle.

Sounds like you feel the need to tinker. Make a stir plate or something.

Sorry, Gavin... can't help myself :beer:

 

[HomeDrewBrew]

Just a quick ?
What would happen if i added half RO and half tap water to brew.
How would it turn out?

 

[HomeDrewBrew]

Would it not add the minerals that the Ro is lacking without overdoing it?I have very hard water although ive done 4 All grain that have been fine,but do have an Ro system setup.
Thanks

 

[bja]

Would it not add the minerals that the Ro is lacking without overdoing it?I have very hard water although ive done 4 All grain that have been fine,but do have an Ro system setup.
Thanks

So you want to fix something that's not broken...

Nobody can tell you what will happen without knowing what's in your tap water.

 

[stuknkrvl]

Update -

It's been two weeks since I started this thing. Six days ago it was at 1.032. Now it's at 1.029, it's a gorgeous burnt orange color, and it tastes like home made pumpkin pie - absolutely fantastic, better than I could have hoped for. That said, I think I screwed up somewhere.

I'm thinking...

• I read my OG incorrectly (used a refractometer instead of a hydrometer)
• It simply hasn't finished fermenting
• OG was right, it's done fermenting, but it didn't attenuate completely

I went ahead and racked it over to secondary tonight to get it off all that trub. I'm gonna let it sit for a week and check the gravity again. If it's holding at 1.029 I'll go ahead and bottle it. Like I said, it tastes amazing, so worst case scenario is I have an extremely sessionable 3.5% pumpkin ale.

I'll keep you posted.

 

[estricklin]

Update -

It's been two weeks since I started this thing. Six days ago it was at 1.032. Now it's at 1.029, it's a gorgeous burnt orange color, and it tastes like home made pumpkin pie - absolutely fantastic, better than I could have hoped for. That said, I think I screwed up somewhere.

I'm thinking...

• I read my OG incorrectly (used a refractometer instead of a hydrometer)
• It simply hasn't finished fermenting
• OG was right, it's done fermenting, but it didn't attenuate completely

I went ahead and racked it over to secondary tonight to get it off all that trub. I'm gonna let it sit for a week and check the gravity again. If it's holding at 1.029 I'll go ahead and bottle it. Like I said, it tastes amazing, so worst case scenario is I have an extremely sessionable 3.5% pumpkin ale.

I'll keep you posted.

Looking good already!

You'll find that most others on this forum, (myself included), usually recommend against doing a secondary.

If you suspect you have bad tap water, then buying spring water from the store is about the smartest, and easiest thing you can do. Most of the stuff sold as spring water has been ran through an RO system, and then had minerals added back to it so that it has more of a neutral taste. Please, don't get too caught up in the water thing right now, there's only about 1,000 other things that will actually impact the flavor of your beer a lot more than using your store bought spring water.

Let the beer ride for a while longer, and good luck on brewing one of my personal favorite styles!