Water Report / Question

[Drk93TT]

Got my water report the other day and already brewed a Pilsner w/ salts and a bit of lactic acid for the mash only to bring the ph down in ez water calc.


Heres my report from ward labs:

Sodium, Na 6
Potassium, K 1
Calcium, Ca 28
Magnesium, Mg 9
Total Hardness, CaCO3 108
Nitrate, NO3-N 0.5
Sulfate, SO4-S 8
Chloride, Cl 9
Carbonate, CO3 <1.0
Bicarbonate, HCO3 99
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 81
Total Phosphorus, P 0.31
Total Iron, Fe 0.01

What do you think?

Without water treatment w/ my previous beers I found I could make good hoppy beers but my darker and more malty beers tasted astringent-y finishing.




Question Im having a hard time finding "answer" to:

I used 2ml lactic acid in my mash water only for my last beer to get the ph to 5.4 per the calculator

I have been searching and haven't found an answer if people also use the lactic acid in the sparge water? The calculator just has a box for lactic acid in Ml and doesn't specify if it is to be added to only mash or sparge or both ( I added to mash only)


( I also have colorphast strips and at 149* mash temp color read around 5.2 so +.3 error = ~ + 5.5 not bad )

I do add the salts to both mash and sparge water just was unclear on the lactic acid to mash sparge or both. I don't want to impart any odd flavor with the lactic... Ive read that anything more than 2ml per gallon is too much and starts impacting flavor.

 

[McTwidget]

My suggestion is to download and read all the datasheets from the Bru'n Water spreadsheet. A quick internet search will find it. The "Instructions" and "Water Knowledge" worksheets are filled with great information.

I used EZ water for awhile, but it seemed to require lots of salts to get the pH down...more so than other sources would suggest.

And to answer your question. Lactic acid can be used in the sparge water, but the only real purpose is to keep pH from increasing above 5.8, which may extract tannins. It doesn't require much lactic acid to do this. With my water, which is slightly soft, for 5 gal batch it's typically less than 1mL

 

[Drk93TT]

Thanks for the tips.

So it sounds like lactic is mainly for mash ... I added the 2ml in the last batch right into my water at 150*F when I added the grains and salts before the 60 min rest.

Maybe I will use a few ML next time in my separate sparge water (I add salts to sparge water separate after all) And check the PH with a colorphast strip once I add the lactic?

Yeah I have both EZ calc and the bru'n water.. bru'n water just seems waaayyy too complex ., maybe takes some getting used to..

 

[McTwidget]

FYI, Bru'n water recommends adding lactic to room temperature water...so before you heat it.

I think a "few" mL of lactic to sparge water for a typical 5 gal batch might be overkill. But checking the pH is a good plan. I have not used the strips, but my understanding is that they are not very accurate.

Also, in reading your description, you say your dark beers are tasting astringent. This seems counter-intuitive to me, as the roasted grains lower the pH, which would lead to less astringency, when compared to lighter colored beers.

Perhaps if you want to troubleshoot, you could post a list of what type and quantities of salts you are adding to the two styles?

In general, with water modification, my advice would be to start small... meaning keep the additions to a minimum to achieve what you want.

Good Luck!

 

[LarMoeCur]

Are you removing the chlorine/chloride? The astringency could be coming from chlorophenols. Chlorine acts differently with various husks phenolic components. Hoppy beers will mask these off flavors. If your not removing the chlorine. I'd add some Campden first then revisit PH levels if you are still having the same flavor issues.

 

[ajdelange]

Were you to brew a Pilsner with RO water (no minerals) or RO supplemented with a very modest amount of calcium chloride (the recipe for a Bohemian version using noble hops - some calcium sulfate would be OK for German variety using non noble varieties) you would want to use 2 - 3% sauermalz for the grains alone. Each kg of sauermalz will deliver 334 mEq of acid to pH 5.4 so figure out how many kg 3% of your grist is and calculate the acid you need in mEq from that if you want to use liquid acid instead of sauermalz. For example, if you plan to mash 8.8 kg of Pils malt with 1 kg or Carfoam you would need 2.7% of that as sauermalz for pH 4.5 which is 0.274 kg and will deliver 0.274*334 = 91.6 mEq of acid. Lactic acid 88% is 11.4 N meaning that each mL delivers 11.4 mEq of protons so use either the 274 g sauermalz or 91.6/11.4 = 8 mL of the acid in the mash water for the grains.

But you won't be using RO water. You will be using water with alkalinity of 1.62 mEq/L (81/50). You will need 90% of that (1.46 mEq/L) as acid to get the water, mash and sparge, to mash pH. Thus each liter of mash water will require 1.46/11.4 = .128 mL additional lactic acid as will each liter of sparge water.

That's about all there is to it.