Water questions: Bicarbonate ppm & filtration effect?

[ipso]

My beers are great. No worries. However.., understanding the local water really is something I need to get around to.

I’m not able to reconcile this (Palmer’s genius)
http://www.howtobrew.com/section3/chapter15-1.html (re Bicarbonates)

To this (Santa Monica water report) – I’m the [SM WELL #1(b)] column, dead center.
http://www.smgov.net/workarea/downloadasset.aspx?id=11924 (p.8)

Q# 1: What’s my “Bicarbonate” ppm? Does, “Hardness (as CaCO3)” – or – “Alkalinity” reasonably equate to Palmer’s Bicarbonate specification?, or do I need to add up various other line-items to get a total? Palmer’s Greek may contain the answer directly. I wouldn’t know (e.g. 2HCO3-1 + Ca+2 + O2 gas --> CaCO3 (ppt) + H2O + CO2 gas.)

Something about cation, anions, and milliequivalents.

The way I see it:
Calcium (“Brewing Range = 50-150 ppm“) – mine is 127, ✓
Magnesium (“Brewing Range = 10-30 ppm“) – mine is 65, -FALSE
Sulfate (“Brewing Range = …150-350 ppm for very bitter beers“) – mine is 256, ✓
Sodium (“Brewing Range = 0-150 ppm“) – mine is 83, ✓
Chloride (“Brewing Range = 0-250 ppm“) – mine is 101, ✓
Bicarbonate (“Brewing Range = …150-250 ppm for dark, roasted malt beers“) – mine is 566? – or – 327? -FALSE

My water pH is pretty solid neutral at 7.1. So I’ve got that going for me. But if the Bicarbonate number (whatever it is) is so high, how can the pH be neutral? I guess the high Magnesium interacts with the Bicarbonate, canceling it out somehow?

BUT – I use one of these filters, to battle Chlorine. I have no idea what the “carbon block” filtration screen-size/metric is or whatever, or if it affects the numbers.
http://morebeer.com/view_product/16762?a_aid=hbf

Q# 2: Does that carbon filter affect the chemical ppm measurements? If so, how so?

Sir Palmer talked about two methods to lower Bicarbonates: boiling and dilution. The problem is, if I dilute with distilled water, depending on what my Bicarbonate ppm number is, I’d have to use a lot. This would lower all of the other numbers. I suspect that’s actually worse for overall beer taste. Nor do I know what effect boiling will have on the other numbers, or for that matter even on the Bicarbonate number. How long to boil?

Any help with the 2 questions is appreciated:
Q# 1: What’s my “Bicarbonate” ppm?
Q# 2: Does that carbon filter affect the chemical ppm measurements? If so, how so?

And I guess a third.

Q# 3: What would you do, if anything, to improve this water? (For, generally, heavy/hoppy all-grain ales.)

 

[rancidcrabtree]

# 1. If your phenolphthalein alkalinity is 0 (which in your case it most likely is as it is not listed on your water report) than your bicarbonate alkalinity will be equal to your total alkalinity, so your total bicarbonate is 327 mg/L (PPM)

# 2. I have no idea, somebody else might though...

# 3. If you are making great beer with your local water already then I wouldn't recommend changing it at all.

 

[mabrungard]

Its a pretty mineralized water. The bicarbonate is only one of the problems. All of the ion concentrations are at near excessive levels and together they add up to the potential for Alka Seltzer beer. The sulfate and magnesium are far too high for brewing modest styles like a bock or a light lager. I'd say that a PA or IPA might be brewed with this water, but not much else is going to taste great.

An activated carbon filter takes out chlorine compounds and volatile organic compounds. It leaves in all of the ions that brewers are interested in, so the numbers from the water report would be the same concentrations after filtering.

Dilution is the solution to your water's pollution. The excessive mineralization can only be reduced by diluting with RO or distilled water.

If you would like to learn more about brewing water chemistry, I recommend you visit the website below.

https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/water-knowledge

Enjoy!

 

[Parkinson1963]

Wow that is some hard water, with high iron, sodium and manganese to boot.

I would not brew with it learn to like the bottle spring water or get a reverse osmosis system

 

[ipso]

rancidcrabtree – #1 = 327ppm. Thank you. (I always wanted a lopey/quick 327cc.

mabrungard – #2 = solved. And your link was outstanding. The ..high water mark of related information. I’ve only ever brewed heavy (and/or IPAs) but I have the ingredients for a funky little Biere de Garde this week and I suspect I’ll need to go find some better water to support at least that effort.

Parkinson1963 - oh man, I thought lots of minerals were a good thing – taste – like in the mountains or something – like water splashing through granite in a beautiful beer commercial – pure as the driven snow. I guess not.

Can anyone suggest a front-runner/popular moderate expense RO rig? (Jeez, the equipment is never ending. I should just know that by now.) It’s either a RO system or Arrowhead/Sparkletts bottles at $15 a pop or whatever it is. I guess I would just split half and half with tap water. Maybe use “spring water” for the mash and tap for the sparge. If I find a RO system I’ll have to mix that that with both mash and sparge, and maybe add a tbsp of gypsum. Not because I know what I’m doing, but because I have a little bag of it somewhere. The logic of a brewing genius.

 

[40watt]

Just like my water, that stuff must turn StarSan to useless cloudy swill pretty damn fast. My Bicarbonate is 462.

 

[mabrungard]

Its not bicarbonate that clouds StarSan, its the calcium. The bicarbonate just means that more StarSan has to be added to the water to reach the sanitizing pH target.

Softened water from an ion-exchange softener (salt-based), is actually good for making StarSan solution. It won't cloud. RO and distilled water are the best choices though.