Water Fermentation Chiller

[Hang Glider]

mid 30's ???

with a cooler and ice?

 

[JonGoku]

How cold are you able to get the cooler that contains the ice water? You obviously can't make the fermentor coolor any colder than the water from the ice water cooler, but you should be able to get a temperature almost the same. Perhaps you need a faster pump or more ice.

Other Horse's Ass Options:
1) Dry Ice
2) Get a Freezer (Freeze != Refrigerator)
3) Move a lot further north

 

[RecruitNBrew]

Nice pics gents.
I can keep the ice water cooler right above freezing with good sized ice blocks (changed daily). It's about 90-95 degrees in my garage during the day, so that isn't helping

I guess mid 30's is not feasible. Is 40 degrees cold enough to lager?

 

[Hang Glider]

Yup. 40-55 for lager yeasts in most cases.
Cool - large ice blocks - hmm..I bet they do last a good bit longer

 

[RecruitNBrew]

They're technically ice disks. I bought a couple shallow plastic pails in the painting section from Home Depot (About 6 inches deep and 12 inch diameter. $1.98 each) and they both fit perfectly in the top shelf of the freezer. I think they each hold up to 5 qts.
They also have a metal handle which is helpful.
I tried clear plastic shoebox style boxes from Target, but both of them cracked within a couple weeks. The round shape and solid blue plastic seem to be sturdier. We'll see.

 

[JonGoku]

I put one of those fabric box shaped coolers over the top of my water cooler to provide additional insulation.

Got a pic of your set up with the fabric box cooler lid on top?

I think your main issue is that your fermentation cooler isn't insulated enough. One more thing you might look into is to create a false top to your fermentation cooler from Styrofoam. Something that would be as airtight as possible with holes in it for everything you have going in/out of it. You could throw some of the reflective bubble wrap insulation they use for water coolers around your cooler too.

 

[jcarson83]

Yup. 40-55 for lager yeasts in most cases.
Cool - large ice blocks - hmm..I bet they do last a good bit longer

Thats a good temp to for primary fermentation of a lager yeast but after that is done "lagering" needs to take place just above freezing or 33-35F.

 

[RecruitNBrew]

I agree that 33-35F is ideal, but John Palmer's How To Brew says this:

Nominal lagering times are 3 - 4 weeks at 45°F, 5 - 6 weeks at 40°F, or 7 - 8 weeks at 35°F

With a few adjustments, I've been holding the temp at 38F for the last two days. It's a little more maintenance with the daily ice changes, but I don't mind the extra effort. Staying involved in the process is fun for me as a new brewer. Keeping within 3 degrees of 35F should lead to a good beer.

 

[jcarson83]

I agree that 33-35F is ideal, but John Palmer's How To Brew says this:

Nominal lagering times are 3 - 4 weeks at 45°F, 5 - 6 weeks at 40°F, or 7 - 8 weeks at 35°F

With a few adjustments, I've been holding the temp at 38F for the last two days. It's a little more maintenance with the daily ice changes, but I don't mind the extra effort. Staying involved in the process is fun for me as a new brewer. Keeping within 3 degrees of 35F should lead to a good beer.

Nice! I guess you could lager fairly easily with this system then. When shooting for the really low temps I find it easier to just dump the ice bin from the freezer in since it fills up by the next day anyway. I still use frozen water bottles but gave up on gallon jugs since they take too long to freeze.

 

[JonGoku]

I still think you should make a custom styrofoam lid and see if that gives you a few more degrees improvement. Here are a few pics of a false strofoam lid I made so my rectangular cooler could house my 7 gallon bucket. There is no water exchange in this setup, but I look to try something like what you guys have going sometime soon.

 

[djnewdynasty]

Have you thought about doing a system that doesnt have the carboy sitting in water? Im trying to figure out how to do something similar, but using copper tubing and a insulating material and having the cold water run through that so it cools just the same. Would that be an option of using the cooler, and run a similar setup to what youve created?

 

[RecruitNBrew]

Have you thought about doing a system that doesnt have the carboy sitting in water? Im trying to figure out how to do something similar, but using copper tubing and a insulating material and having the cold water run through that so it cools just the same. Would that be an option of using the cooler, and run a similar setup to what youve created?

If you had a fully sealed/insulated cooler with the carboy wrapped with an assload of copper tubing (Similar shaping to an immersion wort chiller), I think it could work. I'm not big into physics, but I don't think it would be as efficient as having the carboy in direct contact with the water (water covers quite a bit more surface area than copper tubing). Your minimum temperature probably wouldn't be as low either (which is only important if you want to lager or cold crash). With that being said, just make it and be a homebrew pioneer!:rockin:

 

[djnewdynasty]

haha. right, it would have a gelitin type material covering the copper tubing. Ill try it if it wont be too expensive.

 

[RecruitNBrew]

Got a pic of your set up with the fabric box cooler lid on top?

I think your main issue is that your fermentation cooler isn't insulated enough. One more thing you might look into is to create a false top to your fermentation cooler from Styrofoam. Something that would be as airtight as possible with holes in it for everything you have going in/out of it. You could throw some of the reflective bubble wrap insulation they use for water coolers around your cooler too.

Here are pics of the covered cooler set-up and the buckets I use for the ice disks:

Fabric Cooler Covering Water Cooler on Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Buckets for Ice Disks on Flickr - Photo Sharing!

To get a better fit over the cooler, I've swapped out the airlock for a sanitized piece of aluminum foil.
It is about 100 degrees in my garage these days and I'm still holding 38 degrees with daily ice changes. Not too shabby.

 

[dantodd]

I put one of those fabric box shaped coolers over the top of my water cooler to provide additional insulation.

Any ideas on how to push it down to the mid to hi 30's?
I'd like to lager below 40 if possible.

Wouldn't it be easier to just keep the carboy in an ice bath rather than bothering to pump the water from the other cooler? Also, dump some rock salt into the water, that will help it reach a lower temperature, just like making ice cream.

 

[Orangevango]

but might also corrode your pump over time if its a cheap one.

 

[dantodd]

but might also corrode your pump over time if its a cheap one.

I meant directly into the cooler holding the carboy, if you are just trying to keep it as cold as possible for lagering the extra cooler and pump aren't necessary.

 

[djnewdynasty]

yes dan, but that would need to constant refilling, and if your carboy drops to low in temperature, you would have to dump all your water, ice, and salt out, thats the reason for having the pump. its a safer regulation method. the idea of it is that a) the water inside the cooler holding the carboy is at lets say 60 degrees, the water and ice with your pump in the second cooler is about 40. if your brew needs to be sustained at 60, and you have constant 40 degree water in there, it probably will not turn out correct. however with 40 degree water cycling with the 60 water, the warm water gets dumped to the ice cooler, and is replaced by the cold water, keeping the carboy at a steady 60 degrees.

 

[jcarson83]

yes dan, but that would need to constant refilling, and if your carboy drops to low in temperature, you would have to dump all your water, ice, and salt out, thats the reason for having the pump. its a safer regulation method. the idea of it is that a) the water inside the cooler holding the carboy is at lets say 60 degrees, the water and ice with your pump in the second cooler is about 40. if your brew needs to be sustained at 60, and you have constant 40 degree water in there, it probably will not turn out correct. however with 40 degree water cycling with the 60 water, the warm water gets dumped to the ice cooler, and is replaced by the cold water, keeping the carboy at a steady 60 degrees.

Exactly so. As little temperature fluctuation as possible is the goal.

 

[JonGoku]

Wouldn't it be easier to just keep the carboy in an ice bath rather than bothering to pump the water from the other cooler? Also, dump some rock salt into the water, that will help it reach a lower temperature, just like making ice cream.

I think Dan is only looking at the lagering aspect, were as these contraptions are designed to not only lager but to ferment at ale temps and inbetween. If you are only looking at maintaining the lowest lagering temps as possible then yes, keeping your carboy in an ice bath might work but it would be less controlled especially if you had a ice salt water bath since you could potentially bring the bath to freezing temperatures (maybe?).

 

[dantodd]

I think Dan is only looking at the lagering aspect, were as these contraptions are designed to not only lager but to ferment at ale temps and inbetween. If you are only looking at maintaining the lowest lagering temps as possible then yes, keeping your carboy in an ice bath might work but it would be less controlled especially if you had a ice salt water bath since you could potentially bring the bath to freezing temperatures (maybe?).

Exactly. If you look at the post I replied to you will notice that he was asking about lagering not about fermentation temperature management.

I put one of those fabric box shaped coolers over the top of my water cooler to provide additional insulation.

Any ideas on how to push it down to the mid to hi 30's?
I'd like to lager below 40 if possible.

 

[jcarson83]

Tip: Before bottling or siphoning to secondary push the water inflow tube to the bottom and turn the pump on then off. This will siphon the water off back into the water cooler.

I don't know why I haven't thought of this before. I've had a few floaters when I forgot to get the water out of the fermentation chiller.

 

[shek]

I'm thinking of doing something like this but do to space constraints want to set both vessels on the same surface. Is there any reason why I couldn't use a siphon hose for the warm water return to the cold water tank? Thinking of just getting a tube going in through the top of both containers, as long as both ends of the tube are submerged shouldn't the water drain out of the fermentation chiller as the cold water is pumped from the cold tank keeping the levels roughly equal (depending on the height of the siphon hose)?
Edit/Update: So I rigged up two coolers sitting next to each other on an island in my kitchen. My ferm vessel is a plastic bucket sitting in a large square cooler filled with water. The chilling water is in a 5 gallon water cooler. I have a small aquarium pump moving the chilled water to the cooler to chill the fermenter with a wide piece of vinyl hose setup to siphon warm water back to the water cooler to keep the water level almost even. So far so good. I don't have a temp controller yet though, so I've got the pump hooked up to a timer, we'll see how well that works and if I can adjust the timer to maintain good temps, might be buying a temp controller for my next batch.

 

[kerklein2]

I picked up a 10 gallon Igloo brand and it DOES NOT fit a 6.5 gallon carboy. The carboy will fit in it, but there is no room for the drain. I am searching for a rubbermaid brand one, but they are hard to find.

 

[Kass_Brauhaus]

I'm not sure who actually manufactures it, but the Igloo-type cooler from Home Depot (stamped with the Home Depot Brand) does fit a large carboy. I found mine in the garden section, actually outside. Those drains are also removable, so yours may not be a lost cause (unless your brewing partner drills a random hole in the bottom to make it a hot liquor tank but realizes that the heating elements get really really hot and shouldn't be in contact with plastic...but I digress).

 

[kerklein2]

This is the one I picked up that does not fit my carboy.

This is the one I just ordered that I hope fits.

 

[kerklein2]

I just picked up the larger Rubbermaid cooler today and it does, in fact, fit my 6.5 gallon carboy. Unfortunately, I see no way for any fittings to fit inside. Guys that are doing this...are none of you using 6.5 gallon carboys?

 

[JonGoku]

I just picked up the larger Rubbermaid cooler today and it does, in fact, fit my 6.5 gallon carboy. Unfortunately, I see no way for any fittings to fit inside. Guys that are doing this...are none of you using 6.5 gallon carboys?

What is the OD of your carboy? They do come in different sizes even for the same capacity.

 

[kerklein2]

Tough to measure, but estimated at right over 12". Maybe 12.25".

 

[RecruitNBrew]

With my fittings, the 5 gallon carboy barely fits. I think it would be tough to use a 6.5er. Have you looked into those Ice Cube coolers?
Something like this might work:
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/prod...00000003260410&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=5663765