Water Fermentation Chiller

[RecruitNBrew]

JCarson,

Your design is great! This will be perfect for keeping my brew cool during the 90+ summer days in Southern California.
I built my system much like yours and I've noticed a couple issues during the trial run. First of all, the pump is putting new cold water in the water cooler faster than the old stuff can run out the drain tube. If I left it running for a long time (4-5 hours) while I was trying to really drop the temperature, it would definitely overflow.

My pump is rated at 400gph, what kind are you using? (maybe I need to downsize?)

Also, I turned the spigot to the inside of the water cooler like you mentioned and pushed the button in hard until it stayed stuck in the open flow position. I'm afraid that there is a chance that it might pop out and stop the flow of water (causing a flood). How do you ensure that yours stays open?
I was thinking of upgrading this piece to a metal pass through shank used for draft cooler boxes, but I don't want to spend the cash if I don't have to.

Your thoughts (and other peoples' thoughts) would be appreciated!

 

[RecruitNBrew]

Hang Glider,

Nice work on that system! That is high level work.
Where did you get the metal valves that you are using on your coolers??

 

[jcarson83]

JCarson,

Your design is great! This will be perfect for keeping my brew cool during the 90+ summer days in Southern California.
I built my system much like yours and I've noticed a couple issues during the trial run. First of all, the pump is putting new cold water in the water cooler faster than the old stuff can run out the drain tube. If I left it running for a long time (4-5 hours) while I was trying to really drop the temperature, it would definitely overflow.

My pump is rated at 400gph, what kind are you using? (maybe I need to downsize?)

Also, I turned the spigot to the inside of the water cooler like you mentioned and pushed the button in hard until it stayed stuck in the open flow position. I'm afraid that there is a chance that it might pop out and stop the flow of water (causing a flood). How do you ensure that yours stays open?
I was thinking of upgrading this piece to a metal pass through shank used for draft cooler boxes, but I don't want to spend the cash if I don't have to.

Your thoughts (and other peoples' thoughts) would be appreciated!

I had the same initial problems as you. First off though the pump I use is a 50-80gph that I found at Lowes. So you may need to downgrade if it doesn't have a control.

Second, and this may help both issues, I've upgraded since I updated this thread last. For the overflow I now have a piece of 1/2" (I think) copper pipe and a 90 elbow that hooks onto the same shutoff valve that I use to mash. It's a lot cleaner looking and doesn't restrict the flow of water at all now. Before I did this I would get an inch or two of water above the overflow before it really got flowing good. I never really worried about it too much since it doesn't run for very long after you get down to the target temp.

As for the spigot I think we have different types and this may be restricting your flow too. Mine was a rubber type that I cut off the shut off valve and caulked the button in place. I would be worried about it popping out too so you might want to put a few dabs of epoxy on it to make sure it doesn't.

Glad to hear more people are getting some use out of this and hope to see more improvements coming.

 

[JonGoku]

Nicely done. I have a couple questions regarding the coolers you guys used.
1) Jcarson, What is the inner diameter of the 10 gallon cooler? I'm wondering how universal it is when fitting carboys.
2) Hangglider, What size/make/model cooler is that? I like the double carboy concept and I imagine the larger water mass might help the temp be more stable.

TIA

 

[Hang Glider]

JonGoku,
the Cooler didn't fit two carboys - THAT was the hard part - it's a standard Rubbermaid type 48qt with the liner and half the foam ripped /carved out of it to fit the two. I poured Epoxy on the bottom (since there was no liner) to get a flat surface for the carboys. The walls were coated about 7 times with Plasti-Dip to get them waterproof. Air pockets in the plasti-dip (they'll happen!) were cut out and re-coated.

PITA to build the main cooler, but it works great!


edit - cooler type: Rubbermaid 5-day 50qt wheeled.

 

[RecruitNBrew]

JCarson,

How are you connecting the copper elbow? Is it with a standard cooler conversion bulkhead piece like this:

KEWLER KITZ Bulkhead Fitting :: Midwest Supplies Homebrewing and Winemaking Supplies

If you could add a picture, I would be very appreciative. I want to get this thing right!!

THANKS!!!

 

[jcarson83]

JCarson,

How are you connecting the copper elbow? Is it with a standard cooler conversion bulkhead piece like this:

KEWLER KITZ Bulkhead Fitting :: Midwest Supplies Homebrewing and Winemaking Supplies

If you could add a picture, I would be very appreciative. I want to get this thing right!!

THANKS!!!

I just went to Lowe's and starting playing around with different parts in the plumbing section. Here is what I ended up with

3/4" Ball Valve
3/4" Copper Male Adapter
3/4" Elbow
and maybe 12" of copper pipe.

It could be 1/2" too I can't remember off the top of my head. I'll see if I can takes some pics and post them. It really does work better.

 

[RecruitNBrew]

So I took the advice and decided to use a 1/2 copper tube as the drain instead of vinyl tubing (It is definitely fail safe, so I can sleep at night).

I replaced the spigot with the Kewler Kitz Bulkhead Fitting from Midwest Supplies. I installed it backwards to allow the carboy to fit in the water cooler. To connect the copper pipe to the bulkhead, I picked up a Gator Bite elbow fitting at Lowes that had one end with female thread and the other end with a "push in" fitting for copper pipe. I have no idea how to sweat copper pipe, so this was the easier and safer alternative. I had to cut off a mounting plate that was attached to the elbow, because the carboy wouldn't fit. I used a dremel tool with a cutting wheel.

I also downgraded the pond pump from 400 gph to one that I picked up at Home Depot rated at 130gph. It works like a charm

I brewed up my first batch of Hefeweizen a couple nights ago and the chiller system is working great!

Thanks again for the advice. I'll post some pictures soon.

 

[JonGoku]

So I took the advice and decided to use a 1/2 copper tube as the drain instead of vinyl tubing (It is definitely fail safe, so I can sleep at night).

I replaced the spigot with the Kewler Kitz Bulkhead Fitting from Midwest Supplies. I installed it backwards to allow the carboy to fit in the water cooler. To connect the copper pipe to the bulkhead, I picked up a Gator Bite elbow fitting at Lowes that had one end with female thread and the other end with a "push in" fitting for copper pipe. I have no idea how to sweat copper pipe, so this was the easier and safer alternative. I had to cut off a mounting plate that was attached to the elbow, because the carboy wouldn't fit. I used a dremel tool with a cutting wheel.

I also downgraded the pond pump from 400 gph to one that I picked up at Home Depot rated at 130gph. It works like a charm

I brewed up my first batch of Hefeweizen a couple nights ago and the chiller system is working great!

Thanks again for the advice. I'll post some pictures soon.

If there are no pics it didn't happen

Show us the porn

 

[RecruitNBrew]

Here are some pics of my incarnation of the chiller system:

brew1 on Flickr - Photo Sharing!
brew3 on Flickr - Photo Sharing!
brew2 on Flickr - Photo Sharing!
brew4 on Flickr - Photo Sharing!

I started with the thermowell (thermistor??) directly in the carboy, but I ran into an issue. When the system kicked on, it would pump so much freezing cold water into the chiller that it would push my fermentation temp 4-5 degrees lower than my target. Now that it is in the chiller water, I just set the temp controller about two degrees lower than my target fermentation temp and it works great. Hopefully the brew will taste good too.

As time goes on, I plan on sealing the system for better temperature insulation. I'm looking forward to trying a lager on this thing!

Thanks again to JCarson for the concept.

 

[jcarson83]

I've got the same cold water tank cooler. I cut a hole in one of the cup holders to run the hoses and cord through to keep it sealed better.

 

[JonGoku]

Here are some pics of my incarnation of the chiller system:

brew1 on Flickr - Photo Sharing!
brew3 on Flickr - Photo Sharing!
brew2 on Flickr - Photo Sharing!
brew4 on Flickr - Photo Sharing!

I started with the thermowell (thermistor??) directly in the carboy, but I ran into an issue. When the system kicked on, it would pump so much freezing cold water into the chiller that it would push my fermentation temp 4-5 degrees lower than my target. Now that it is in the chiller water, I just set the temp controller about two degrees lower than my target fermentation temp and it works great. Hopefully the brew will taste good too.

As time goes on, I plan on sealing the system for better temperature insulation. I'm looking forward to trying a lager on this thing!

Thanks again to JCarson for the concept.

Nice work! Thanks for the pics.

 

[jcarson83]

Finally got around to taking some photos of the new overflow setup. It looks very similar to the others.

The basic setup is a copper pipe to a 90 elbow to a male threaded connection. I had to make the plastic washer to get a tight seal with the gasket that came off the cooler.

You can see the corrosion caused by adding too much bleach to the chilled water. It gets a little stinky after a few weeks but all you really need is about a teaspoon.

 

[Hang Glider]

I dribbled in a bit of StarSan to my water to keep it clean (instead of bleach)...
my .02

 

[RecruitNBrew]

After doing more research, I realize that the system also has another useful application. Before the fermentation stage, I will be connecting the chill water cooler and pump to my immersion chiller to cool my worts down much faster.
It'll will be easier to justify the investment to the wife!!

 

[JonGoku]

Do any of you guys using this system add anything to the water to keep it clean? Something like Starsan, Bleach, etc.

 

[Hang Glider]

Post # 43 and 44 above. Bleach and StarSan

 

[JonGoku]

Damn your good. Answering questions before they could be asked! LOL, sorry, I'm not sure how I missed that.

 

[RecruitNBrew]

Can anyone point me to reliable data about how the temperature of the wort inside the carboy changes during the fermentation process? I've heard that it can be up to 10 degrees warmer than the ambient temperature during the first few days and then it tapers off.

JCarson and Hangglider, Do you make adjustments to your temp controller during the fermentation or just leave it on one static temperature the whole time?

 

[944play]

Don't think about TEMPERATURE, think about HEAT. There is a fixed amount of HEAT produced by fermentation, and the slower the fermentation, the slower the release of heat. The larger the volume, the more thermal mass there is to absorb the heat.

It's about 140 kilocalories per kilogram of extract* fermented.

I believe that if a temp probe taped to the side of a fermenter in open air is accurate within a degree, then the same probe in a water bath should be within a degree.

I use this system too.

*Meaning sugar.

 

[Beernip]

Anyone ever think about connecting this system to a water dispenser unit? I see them on craigslist from time to time for about $40. Some have both a hot and cold ports. With a dual stage controller you may be able to heat and cool.

GE Hot & Cold Free Standing Water Dispenser - GXCF05D at The Home Depot

 

[JonGoku]

Anyone ever think about connecting this system to a water dispenser unit? I see them on craigslist from time to time for about $40. Some have both a hot and cold ports. With a dual stage controller you may be able to heat and cool.

GE Hot & Cold Free Standing Water Dispenser - GXCF05D at The Home Depot

I think that might be going a step beyond the low cost and multifunctionality point of these sytesms. When not used as such they revert back to coolers etc and are fairly low budget items.

On the other hand that sounds like a pretty cool idea if neither of the above are of concern. My only concern if you were able to work out the engineerding part would be that the hot water supplied would be too hot and you may very well overshoot your desired temp.

 

[RecruitNBrew]

Don't think about TEMPERATURE, think about HEAT. There is a fixed amount of HEAT produced by fermentation, and the slower the fermentation, the slower the release of heat. The larger the volume, the more thermal mass there is to absorb the heat.

It's about 140 kilocalories per kilogram of extract* fermented.

I believe that if a temp probe taped to the side of a fermenter in open air is accurate within a degree, then the same probe in a water bath should be within a degree.

I use this system too.

*Meaning sugar.

Thanks for the info! Now I can just relax, not worry, and have a store bought brew (waiting for the 1st batch of homebrew to finish).

Just to be extra anal, I have the thermowell pushed up against the carboy

 

[Beernip]

I think that might be going a step beyond the low cost and multifunctionality point of these sytesms. When not used as such they revert back to coolers etc and are fairly low budget items.

On the other hand that sounds like a pretty cool idea if neither of the above are of concern. My only concern if you were able to work out the engineerding part would be that the hot water supplied would be too hot and you may very well overshoot your desired temp.

I understand going for a low cost solution but this project depends mostly on reusing items at hand to keep it low cost. If you could find this cheep or free it may be an option. To me it mostly just sounds like fun.

You could always blend the hot water output with the cold to reach a more desirable temp.

 

[RecruitNBrew]

I think the easiest solution to add heat would be a submersible fish tank heater. They usually have auto shutoff settings with a range of about 65 to 80 degrees (would work for everything but lagers). You can pick one up for less than $30 and it wouldn't require a dual temp control unit. No further plumbing modifications required either....

 

[c0bra]

I was looking for info on the water resistance of the Ranco sensors and got this off their site:

"Note: The manufacturer does not recommend the sensor be directly submersed in liquids."

Has anyone had any problems with this or is it just manufacturer CYA?

 

[bendavanza]

that's odd. The ranco probe is supposed to be submersible. That's one of the reasons I bough it instead of the analog capillary tube from Johnson C.

 

[jcarson83]

There is a post on here that shows you how to waterproof with some silicon tubing. I've never worried about it and just submerge it about and inch so the hard plastic is the only wet part.

 

[SCSF336]

I like it- I was actually considering something very similar- moreso I was going to simply use a 55 gallon drum to hold a 10 gallon primary at 60ish degrees by circulating water around it. Your design definitely steps up the idea by circulating icy cold water and eliminating the need for running up an electric bill with a spare fridge.

 

[RecruitNBrew]

What is the coldest temperature you have achieved with this system?
With daily ice block changes (using this system), I can usually keep it around 40 degrees.
I put one of those fabric box shaped coolers over the top of my water cooler to provide additional insulation.

Any ideas on how to push it down to the mid to hi 30's?
I'd like to lager below 40 if possible.

(Please don't be a horse's ass and say "get an old refrigerator instead")