water cooler carboy

[ChasidicCalvinist]

Other than for purist reasons, is there any chemical reason why I could use a water cooler 5 gallon carboy for secondary fermentation?

 

[bullinachinashop]

Please use the search window.

 

[CPFITNESS]

for the record i'm often on this site from my tablet or phone app and search is pretty much non functioning

 

[AnOldUR]

The PET plastic used in Better Bottles is specially formulated to be less oxygen permeable, but a water cooler bottle would be fine except for really long term conditioning (say over six months.)





And for the record, you're fine, he's not:

Rules and Regulations Please remember, all memberships to HomeBrewTalk are voluntary memberships.

13. No use of "Google it", or "Try Searching". If a question has been answered before, answer it again or with nicety provide a link rather than copying/pasting content from elsewhere on the forum. Berating or poking fun at "noobs" for not searching will not be allowed.

 

[DubBrew]

for the record i'm often on this site from my tablet or phone app and search is pretty much non functioning

I've had this problem too but have found that if you change the search to sort by "relevancy" rather than recent post you get far better search results. Also if searching more than one word put the phrase in quotes.

 

[rifraf]

To further clarify, a normal water cooler bottle is typically made from recycling code "7" plastic, which is sort of a catch-all. It shouldn't impart any off flavors, although if BPA is something you worry about there may be a little in it. If you can find one that is "1" or "2" you're golden.

The major concern is more the fact that normal water cooler jugs are not great oxygen barriers. From reading all the other posts on this, there are some people who say 1 or 2 weeks tops in a cooler jug and you won't notice a difference, and others who say it's not worth it. If your beer gets too much O2 it reduces shelf life and can give off-flavors.

It's basically up to you. Personally I decided I'd rather spend the extra 13 bucks for a Better Bottle which is PET ("1"). I do, however, check the jugs every time I go into a new store. If I ever find a 1 or 2, it's mine1

 

[RM-MN]

Have you decided why you are using a secondary? I have one of the water jugs that I have used for secondary.....twice in 4 years when I added fruit. I have also used it for primary.....once in 4 years. The rest of the time it sits empty, just taking up space.

Most ales don't really need secondary. They will clear just the same in the primary. I've dry hopped in the primary too with good results. The times I would use a secondary is for lagering for a long period, adding oak or something like vanilla beans, or for aging a high gravity beer. For those times I would want to use glass.

 

[brewmax25]

I have to buy big jugs of water to brew with. The jugs i buy are pet 1 and i use them for secondary. They only cost 5 dollars with 4 gallons of water and then an empty jug! Pretty good deal. I have even been lagering in them and no issues for me!

It was a great alternative for me because i didnt feel like spending big money on heaps of better bottles.

 

[JoshuaW]

My local Lowe's normally has "1" bottles, might be worth checking. But yes, you can ferment in one of the plastics. If you are going to be into the hobby for the long haul, I would recommend at least a few glass carboys, they are better IMO. If you are just starting out, or find a great deal, definitely dont pass up a good water jug.

 

[jaytizzle]

Just to make sure... a "1" bottle would be the equivalent of a Better Bottle? If so then I'm in luck as I just checked the water jugs at my office and they're all "1" bottles! I may have just found myself an extra 5g vessel for whenever I need one!

 

[rifraf]

Just to make sure... a "1" bottle would be the equivalent of a Better Bottle? If so then I'm in luck as I just checked the water jugs at my office and they're all "1" bottles! I may have just found myself an extra 5g vessel for whenever I need one!

From what I've gathered, yes. I don't think Better Bottles are any different than standard PET, and besides that all my ale pails are 1.

 

[ChasidicCalvinist]

Wow, thanks for all the responses and I'm sorry I didn't perform a "search" first.

I'm trying to assemble a kit and I really have hardly any money to work with. A guy yesterday offered me a 5 gallon water cooler jug that was clean (he just took it off the cooler) and it says, BPA free on it so I thought, "why not?" But thought I should check first. Thanks again.

 

[AnOldUR]

I don't think Better Bottles are any different than standard PET. . .

Read this.

BetterBottle PET carboys are made of plastic; however, they are not like other plastic carboys. First of all, they are made of a special PET and secondly they are made in a manner that packs the plastic molecules very tightly and creates a delicate balance between microcrystaline and amorphous regions.1 . . .

 

[rifraf]

That passage you quoted links to a source article talking about permeability to O2 of PET in general, not Better Bottles specifically. The study actually uses 2L soda bottles, not Better Bottles, so I'm guessing that the close packing structure that Better Bottles boasts about is actually true for all blown-PET bottles.

The BB website states that it's better than normal water jugs, but most of those are not actually PET. Additionally, the permeability section never claims that it is better than other PET water jugs, just regular bottle jugs.

I personally have a BB carboy that I'm very happy with, but I wouldn't hesitate to use a PET 5g water jug if I ever stumble across one. That is what I gathered from some of the other HBT threads on this topic.

I would be very curious to hear if anyone has used a non Better Bottle PET 5g water jug and compared it to a Better Bottle brand bottle to see if there are any noticeable differences.

 

[bleme]

The bottle deposit for the bottles at my work is $6 each but I talked to the owner and he sent me home 3 of them, 2 with built-in handles and one without. The 2 with handles are great for mixing my cleaners and sanitizers. I am saving the one without a handle to add blueberries to the wheat beer I currently have in my glass primary.

 

[helibrewer]

Many are BPA Free these days. The oxygen barrier concern is irrelevant, you will expose it to more oxygen in one hydrometer reading than a year stored in the bottle.

In the rare instance I use glass, it's never moved with liquid in it, I pump out of the carboy into a keg, or I place the glass in my cooler and pump from the primary into it.

 

[rifraf]

Many are BPA Free these days. The oxygen barrier concern is irrelevant, you will expose it to more oxygen in one hydrometer reading than a year stored in the bottle.

I guess in theory then, any water cooler jug is ok? If I'm just secondarying for a week or two in fruit we're just talking tiny tiny bits of O2?

 

[helibrewer]

I guess in theory then, any water cooler jug is ok? If I'm just secondarying for a week or two in fruit we're just talking tiny tiny bits of O2?

True, I don't think there have been any studies on long term aging for beer as there has been for wine. The wine industry is actually embracing the "micro-oxygenation" of extended storage, it's one of the benefits of barrels.

It seems it should carry over since oxidation in wine and beer is considered a flaw. But like I said, we expose our beer to far more oxygen than a permeable bottle ever will based on our contact times.