Water Absorption and Mash Ratios

[TycoRossBrewing]

So I seem to be very confused about grain ratios and water absorption and seeing as i dont want to stress too much while actually brewing my first batch I thought I would push around some questions now.

Lets just say I am brewing a five gallon batch of Pale Ale with 11.5 pound grain bill. The recipe indicates the boil should be at 6.5 gallons.

I am using the brewers friend calculator to calculate the rest cycle. I was shooting for one hour rest at 158 and a thirty minute rest at 170.

To reach 158 they say to add 14.38 quartz of water heated at 172.9 degrees. Then to ramp up to 170 I need to add 4.8 quartz of boiling water. Now the question is, this doesnt equalt 6.5 gallons, in fact with grain absorption this is Fairly drastic. Am i suppose to sparge the rest to reach the boil batch and how much should I expect the grain to absorb? Some people say the grain absorbs up to .2 gallons of water per pound of grain. If im only using 1.25 quartz per pound and a quart is .25 of a gallon it seems like most of the water stays in the grain. Could really use some input. Thanks

 

[SnakeRidge]

The easy way to do this is to mash in with your 14.4quarts of 173* water. Rest for 60'. Add your mash out water to get to 170*. You don't have to rest here for 30' or at all, you're just denaturing the mash enzymes so they don't continue to work on the sugars. Run this off into your pot. These are the first runnings. Measure the volume. You should have 2-3 gallons or so. Say for arguments sake, you get 3 gallons of first runnings, then you add 3.5 gallons more water at 170* back to the mash tun. You will run off 3.5 gallons of second runnings. 3+3.5=6.5 boil volume. You get all of that 3.5 gallons back since the grain has already absorbed the water, the dead space of your mash tun is already filled.

 

[Onkel_Udo]

14.38 + 4.8 = 19.8 qt
11.5*.5 (typical grain absorbtion qt/#) = 5.8 qt
19.8 - 5.8 = 14 qt
14/4 = 3.5 Gallons of first running (estimated)
6.5 - 3.5 = 3 gal Sparge water (estimated)

 

[TycoRossBrewing]

Thanks man. Really appreciate your response.

So the absorption rate is about half a quart per pound?

 

[Yooper]

Thanks man. Really appreciate your response.

So the absorption rate is about half a quart per pound?

For me, it's about 1.25 gallon for every 10 pounds of grain. I never did that in 'quarts' before, but yes, that would be about 1/2 quart per pound.

 

[brewkinger]

This all sounds good. I would be remiss if I did not point out one thing.
Mashing at 158 degrees seems a bit high to me. That is going to make for a very sweet and unfermentable wort. You mentioned a pale ale and that would be high.

 

[TycoRossBrewing]

This all sounds good. I would be remiss if I did not point out one thing.
Mashing at 158 degrees seems a bit high to me. That is going to make for a very sweet and unfermentable wort. You mentioned a pale ale and that would be high.

I have read anywhere from 153-160 works. I like a fuller body on my pale ales, if the wort has more umfermentables it will be sweeter and have a fuller body, but if its mashed at a lower temp it will have more alcohol and a thinner body, do i have that right?

 

[doug293cz]

I like a fuller body on my pale ales, if the wort has more umfermentables it will be sweeter and have a fuller body, but if its mashed at a lower temp it will have more alcohol and a thinner body, do i have that right?

That's the basic relationship. There are things you can do with malt choice to manipulate this affect somewhat.

Brew on

 

[RM-MN]

Can we just simplify the math on this? I'll make the assumption that you are going to batch sparge since you will have plenty of other issues to worry about and don't need the addition of a fly sparge to consider. Mash in with the amount of water specified to get to your mash temp, be that 150 or 155 or whatever you choose. Let it sit for the 60 minutes. Drain the tun. Note how much wort you have collected and figure out how much more you might need to get to the 6.5 gallons that you intend for pre-boil. Add that amount of water in one or two sparges, stirring like mad, then draining the tun again. Enough wort on the first sparge and you are done. If not, do a second sparge to get to the volume you want.

Since you are batch sparging (I just told you to do it that way) you don't need to ramp up to 170. Just drain the tun, sparge, drain again, and start heating to boil.

 

[brewkinger]

Can we just simplify the math on this? I'll make the assumption that you are going to batch sparge since you will have plenty of other issues to worry about and don't need the addition of a fly sparge to consider. Mash in with the amount of water specified to get to your mash temp, be that 150 or 155 or whatever you choose. Let it sit for the 60 minutes. Drain the tun. Note how much wort you have collected and figure out how much more you might need to get to the 6.5 gallons that you intend for pre-boil. Add that amount of water in one or two sparges, stirring like mad, then draining the tun again. Enough wort on the first sparge and you are done. If not, do a second sparge to get to the volume you want.

Since you are batch sparging (I just told you to do it that way) you don't need to ramp up to 170. Just drain the tun, sparge, drain again, and start heating to boil.

Yup...
Beat me to it.

 

[TycoRossBrewing]

Can we just simplify the math on this? I'll make the assumption that you are going to batch sparge since you will have plenty of other issues to worry about and don't need the addition of a fly sparge to consider. Mash in with the amount of water specified to get to your mash temp, be that 150 or 155 or whatever you choose. Let it sit for the 60 minutes. Drain the tun. Note how much wort you have collected and figure out how much more you might need to get to the 6.5 gallons that you intend for pre-boil. Add that amount of water in one or two sparges, stirring like mad, then draining the tun again. Enough wort on the first sparge and you are done. If not, do a second sparge to get to the volume you want.

Since you are batch sparging (I just told you to do it that way) you don't need to ramp up to 170. Just drain the tun, sparge, drain again, and start heating to boil.

I do have a fly sparging apparatus but this sounds a little easier for our first go around. Since i have a fly sparge, are they any benefits to doing that instead of the batch sparge you described or should i just do this method?

 

[TycoRossBrewing]

Add that amount of water in one or two sparges, stirring like mad, then draining the tun again. Enough wort on the first sparge and you are done. If not, do a second sparge to get to the volume you want.

now at this step of batch sparging should i be using boiling water or does it not mater because i will be denaturing the enzymes when i start the boil anyways??

 

[doug293cz]

...are they any benefits to doing that instead of the batch sparge you described or should i just do this method?

Are you trying to start a holy war?

Batch and fly sparging both work well. Whether one or the other is better will depend on your particular brewing setup, and your personal preferences. Try both, and use the one (or both) that meets your personal criteria for "better."

Brew on

 

[doug293cz]

Add that amount of water in one or two sparges, stirring like mad, then draining the tun again. Enough wort on the first sparge and you are done. If not, do a second sparge to get to the volume you want.

now at this step of batch sparging should i be using boiling water or does it not mater because i will be denaturing the enzymes when i start the boil anyways??

You can use hot or cold water for sparging (http://braukaiser.com/blog/blog/2009/05/12/cold-water-sparging/). If you sparge slowly, then a mash out (getting the mash up to ~170°) can be beneficial. If you go quickly, then not so much.

Brew on

 

[RM-MN]

Of course there are benefits to fly sparging. Otherwise why would anyone want to add another 45 to 60 minutes to their brew day. There are 2 that come to mind quickly. One is increased extraction of sugar. You can get a higher efficiency with fly sparging than with batch sparging, same as you gain some efficiency by sparging over doing a no-sparge. However it seems like it isn't a whole lot. The second advantage comes if you are brewing with a group as it takes more time so you can drink more beer.

 

[GreenSpyder]

Interesting you ask this: I measured pre and post mash volumes very carefully my first several batches, then found similar numbers online.

Add an extra .25-.35 qts water per pound of grain. My numbers work out between .3 & .35 consistently, but I live at altitude and it's drier here.

Yesterday I added 11lbs of grain to 17 qts in the MT, then another 2 quarts to adjust for temperature. I lautered 16 qts back in the BK (.27 qts/lb absorption). Since my grain was already saturated, I knew to add 3 more gallons to the batch sparge to get a full 7 gallons of preboil. (I got lucky with 91% efficiency.)

I've read to mash 1.5-2 quarts of water per pound of grain, also factor in the .3 for absorption, and you'll do fine. My math looked like this: (11# x 1.5 qts) + (11# x .3 qts) =19.3 qts. Minus 2 qts for adjusting temperature = approx 17 qts.

As far as temps go, my initial 17 qts strike water were at 168F, and after I added in the grain I was at 163 (I preheat my MT with 4 gallons of 190F water that I use later for sparge). I like to allow 2 qts for temp adjustment, and calculate this into my plan. I was able to adjust down to 158, then stir down two more (in a 52F garage) for a 156F mash. I lost no heat after an hour. I slowly vorlauf about 2 quarts, then slowly lautered the 16 qts into the MT, and by this time my grain bed cooled down, and I saw I needed three more gallons to get 7 gallons back. I heated 12 qts to 185 and batch sparged (10 minutes), then vorlaufed 2 qts again, and sparged out very slowly (168F outflow). This gave me a full 7 gallon preboil. I usually lose 1 gallon during an hour brew, which leaves 6 gallons to put to the fermenter, but usually I toss out the 1/2 gallon with the trub in the BK after the cold break and get 5.5 gallons back.