Was gonna go propane, but...

[slakwhere]

i just downgraded from 5500w elements to 3500w elements in my HLT and BK so i can use them at the same time on my 30A setup. this way i can heat sparge and HERMS water at the same time, as well as brew back to back batches. i did some math on this and i'm actually using MORE watts worth of heating when using both at once (7k instead of 5.5k) so my initial water should actually heat quicker and i can do the whole volume at once.

this calculator will show you what the different elements will do for a given volume of water, so you can decide if a 5500 is worth it. the diagram PJ drew you shows that you cannot use both at once, so 5500 would just mean slightly faster heating times.

http://gnipsel.com/beer/software/calculators/electric-heat.xls

15 gallons @ 4500W from 60F to 160F (100F change in temp) = 51 min
15 gallons @ 5500W from 60F to 160F (100F change in temp) = 42 min

 

[g-love]

Slakwhere - Thanks for the link. That's exactly what I was looking for. That helps me see that 4500w elements will be plenty for what I need. Using them will help keep the cost low. The minutes saved by jumping to 5500w elements are not worth the increased cost of all the supporting parts needed.

I wasn't second guessing P-J, I hope it wasn't taken that way.

 

[slakwhere]

Happy to help

 

[P-J]

Slakwhere - Thanks for the link. That's exactly what I was looking for. That helps me see that 4500w elements will be plenty for what I need. Using them will help keep the cost low. The minutes saved by jumping to 5500w elements are not worth the increased cost of all the supporting parts needed.

I wasn't second guessing P-J, I hope it wasn't taken that way.

Not a chance in any way.

Everything in these designs and builds have a HUGE 'depends' attached to them.

I just try to help with my best intent for success.

P-J

 

[g-love]

Ok.... I'm sourcing parts and learning. I've been reading a ton and digesting as much as possible. I've got another question.

I weld for fun in my spare time. At home, I use a 110 mig, but I intend on stepping up to a better rig in the future and also buying an arc welder. So.... I would like the outlet that I wire in to be able to handle my brew rig, but also my welding needs.

So, am I looking at a 50A situation?

I am guessing I can go 50A breaker in the main panel and a spa panel, which would also be 50A. I would use 6awg between the main and the spa panel. If so, what wire do I run from the spa panel to the brew rig? Can I still get away with 10awg for that purpose?

 

[jeffmeh]

I am guessing I can go 50A breaker in the main panel and a spa panel, which would also be 50A. I would use 6awg between the main and the spa panel. If so, what wire do I run from the spa panel to the brew rig? Can I still get away with 10awg for that purpose?

No, you if you went with 10awg you would need to protect it with a 30 amp breaker. If your control panel only requires 30 amps, you could run 6awg from the spa panel to the control panel, have a 30 amp breaker in the control panel, and use 10awg downstream of that breaker.

Alternatively, you could make your spa panel a plug in device, unplug it when you want to free up the 50 amp outlet to weld, plug it in for brewing. In that case, you would run 6awg to the spa panel, put an additional 30 amp breaker in the spa panel downstream of the 50 amp GFCI, and run 10awg from the spa panel to the control panel.

Have fun.

 

[g-love]

Jeffmeh - makes total sense. Thanks for the input, it's much appreciated and the reason why I love HBT so much.

 

[g-love]

P-J,

Would you be able to update my diagram with a timer added in? I was looking at the JSL-71 from auber.

http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=290

I think it'd be convenient to have it included in the CP.

Also, I've been looking at TiberBrew's build and wondering if I should be using a contactor for the elements.... Thoughts?

Thanks for your help.

 

[P-J]

P-J,

Would you be able to update my diagram with a timer added in? I was looking at the JSL-71 from auber.

http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=290

I think it'd be convenient to have it included in the CP.

Also, I've been looking at TiberBrew's build and wondering if I should be using a contactor for the elements.... Thoughts?

Thanks for your help.

Give me a little time to sort this one out. I'll make a new diagram for you.

P-J

 

[g-love]

No rush. Many thanks P-J!

 

[P-J]

P-J,

Would you be able to update my diagram with a timer added in? I was looking at the JSL-71 from auber.

http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=290

I think it'd be convenient to have it included in the CP.

Also, I've been looking at TiberBrew's build and wondering if I should be using a contactor for the elements.... Thoughts?

Thanks for your help.

Ok.. I completed the diagram for you that includes the JSL-71 timer. It is also set up using contactors. The contactors make it much easier to control the system using regular switches instead of speciality high current switches.

As always click on the image to see (and save) a full scale diagram printable on Tabloid paper (11" x 17")




I hope this help you.

P-J

 

[g-love]

P-J,

This looks great. I am on the run today, but when I get home later I'll sit down and study it a bit more. Thanks so much. I'm really excited about this!

 

[g-love]

Ok. I looked everything over and it looks perfect. I have made a parts list and now it's time to do some shopping.

I have a metal enclosure at home that measure 14"x17"x4.5". I think it would be a cool box to use for the CP, but I think 4.5 is going to be too thin. Can anyone confirm this? The face is big 14x17, so I could spread things out, but I am thinking that I would not have enough room for the heat sink and the SSR, specifically. Is there any other way to arrange the components to make this work with such a shallow box?

 

[BadNewsBrewery]

Do you plan to run the SSR's heatsink inside, or pop it out the side/top/back?

Auber doesn't list the depth on the SYL-2352, but I'm guessing you'd be tight at 4.5" - it may fit though. Your contactors are also going to be a deciding factor. Looking at a ruler and trying to remember what my panel looks like internally (I'm at work right now), I think the PID would fit, but my big contactors might not clear, especially on a back plate with DIN mounts.

 

[g-love]

Badnews, I was thinking about the heat sinks being inside, but i'm not opposed to them popping out the back. I'm learning as I go and wasn't sure if that was an option. They were my biggest concern, though. I didn't find a depth measurement on the PID either. I think I'll just buy my parts and see if they fit. If not, I'll just pick up a box.

 

[P-J]

Badnews, I was thinking about the heat sinks being inside, but i'm not opposed to them popping out the back. I'm learning as I go and wasn't sure if that was an option. They were my biggest concern, though. I didn't find a depth measurement on the PID either. I think I'll just buy my parts and see if they fit. If not, I'll just pick up a box.

Definitely mount the heatsink on the outside of the controller. I'd suggest this one External Mount Heat Sink for 40A SSR

The dimensions on the SYL-2352 PID is 1.89" x 1.89" and 3.94" deep.
The JSL-71 Timer is 1.89" x 1.89" and 3.35" deep.
I think they will fit if you have nothing behind them.

Hope this helps.

P-J

 

[g-love]

Good info P-J. Thanks.

 

[BadNewsBrewery]

P-J once again comes through with the details! I second the external heat-sink. Mine is mounted externally and it definitely gets warm after a full brew session. I'd hate to have it inside and dumping all that heat into a closed space full of other electronics.

 

[g-love]

Next question.

Concerning the resistors for the e-stop, are these acceptable:

http://m.radioshack.com/radioshack/...hack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062296"

I know what resistors do, but I'm not sure how to work with them. How does one physically wire them in? Are there resistor "holders" to keep them from moving around/touching the box itself?

 

[BadNewsBrewery]

Those are the ones. Can you solder? Solder a wire to one end of each resistor. Solder the other end of the resistors to eachother. Slide a piece or two of shrink-wrape over everything and you're golden. Otherwise, the only other way I've seen resistors done is using a small breadboard and some jumper wires, but that's normally just for prototyping and not for long term use.

 

[g-love]

Yeah, I can solder. Thanks Badnews.

I was thinking it'd be that easy, but assuming has gotten me before.

 

[BadNewsBrewery]

Just make sure you don't get the resistors too hot and you'll be fine - same with soldering other stuff.

 

[P-J]

Next question.

Concerning the resistors for the e-stop, are these acceptable:

http://m.radioshack.com/radioshack/...hack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062296"

I know what resistors do, but I'm not sure how to work with them. How does one physically wire them in? Are there resistor "holders" to keep them from moving around/touching the box itself?

Those resistors are A-Ok.
To wire them check out this post:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/brew-magic-electric-270319/index24.html#post4080976

Hope this helps you.

 

[g-love]

Thanks P-J.

I have a question about the RTD sensor. My intention is to monitor the wort temp leaving the herms hex coil (bad news, I know you and walker were discussing this in another thread recently). With all the probe lengths to choose from, how do I know which to choose? Could someone offer some guidance here?

 

[P-J]

You want 1/2" of the probe tip to be placed directly in the fluid path that you are wanting to monitor/measure. The total probe length then can be judged based on the fittings and connections that you place when you set it up.

I hope this makes sense.

 

[g-love]

That makes perfect sense. Thanks again!

 

[theknub]

Thanks P-J.

I have a question about the RTD sensor. My intention is to monitor the wort temp leaving the herms hex coil (bad news, I know you and walker were discussing this in another thread recently). With all the probe lengths to choose from, how do I know which to choose? Could someone offer some guidance here?

you can put it in a "t" fitting like shown here

http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=20_15&products_id=249

 

[BadNewsBrewery]

You can use the exact same setup as Kal did for his probe in the T of his HLT and MLT - I believe it's a 1/2" T, a bushing, and a probe. It's the same setup I use, and it works great (as long as the liquid is flowing past it continuously).

 

[g-love]

Good call. That's what I was looking for. Thanks to both of you.

Looks like I'm going to be placing a few orders tomorrow and getting some parts sent my way! I'm excited and a little nervous. I am sure I'll have some silly questions as I go, but I'll ask anyway. The help in this thread and in all the others I've been reading has been indispensable.

 

[g-love]

I dropped a bunch of money today! At least, it's a bunch to me. I bought all of the components to build my control panel except for a few odds and ends.

Here's my next silly question. I've got 10 AWG wire to run from my main panel to the control panel. Once I get inside the control panel, what gauge wire do I need to use? Am I correct in assuming that everything still needs to be 10 AWG unless it's downstream of the fuses?