Want to put a pond in my yard - not brewing related sorry

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

I want to put a big pond in my yard, and I want some information about it.
Since out community has pretty much everything on the planet, I figured
someone here would know about this stuff.

Background:
I have 3.125 acres of property in the country. A farmers swale has always
run through the yard but now with surrounding development, our yard has
begun to hold more and more of the water. The result is a small wetland in
my back yard.

To further complicate matters, the farm that surrounds us is owned by a
developer (related) who intends to put a subdivision there when the
housing market builds back up. The plan puts a drainage pond right behind
our property.

My plan:
I want a pond with a small river where the wetland is. My plan is to have it
look like this:

I want the pond to be deep enough to hold some fish and winter over in
Wisconsin. I also want to have it be a natural habitat without adding
chemicals etc. The river will have to be pumped.

So what I am looking for is very rough install costs, reality checks, tips,
suggestions, operating costs/work, and anything at all you can think of to
say.

Thanks!

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Get a backhoe.

Are you in heavy clay?

 

[Krelja]

Probably not gonna help too much but here it goes anyway. My father has a summer home in upstate NY near cooperstown. He always wanted to live on or right near some water. So we all decided instead of moving we'll build a pond. Some things to look into, how big are you looking to make this thing? The DEP wanted to be involved with anything over 2 acres(we did 1.8). We had a local come in and dig it in. I'm sure the money spent to make will vary by region but up there they did it from soup to nuts for $15,000 that was also about 4 years ago or so. They basically came in with bulldozers and pushed all the soil to a corner to make a dam and went from there. Our pond is naturally fed so no pumps or anything like that and we have slowly been stocking it with largemouth, catfish, and black crappies and it seems to be doing vey well. I'll try to post some pics of the construction of it hopefully later tonight. Another thing is out pond is 18 ft deep on the dam side and they were a little worried cause it filled up very quickly but all is well now

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

Did you have to test for where the water table was or anything? How would I know if it would naturally fill up?

The pump would just be to keep the water moving through the river and some air in the pond.

As designed the pond and river together are about 0.25 acre. It wouldn't be for fishing, I just want to put some fish in it as pets (kind of). It would just be to collect the water in one spot to dry out the rest of my yard and make it something pretty.

If anyone around SE Wisco is reading this and has a contractor they know, please chime in.

 

[Ichthy]

If you want it to fill naturally, it needs be downhill of some area that collects and flows overland water. Is there an upstream watershed that can fill this thing? You'll likely have to seal the bottom of your pond with clay, unless you have a natural clay subsoil that will hold water.

If you want to hold fish year round in Wisc. you'll probably need at least 15' of depth over a sufficient area. Consult with your DNR, they'll have more specific recommendation to prevent winter kill of fishes.

Not sure I get what you mean by 'river' especially if your pumping it. Is there a stream or rill that currently flows through the property? Are you recirculating water from your wetland? Otherwise you'll be pumping your well/water table dry?

You don't need to aerate a pond if you stock fish at an appropriate rate. Unless you fertlize the crap out of your yard or feed your fish too much (if you will be feeding).

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

Well, the wetland is there because water from the surrounding fields collects there. There is standing water in the very shallow pools for most of the year. I do not know if there is a spring or whatnot, but there is no creek or river.

By river, I mean a man made river. In my picture above, the stream would start at that pool area at the top of the pic, then flow into the main pond, and be pumped back to the pool. Maybe that is a pipe dream???

I know that my area has clay soil, but have no idea what it is like 15' down nor what type amount of clay I would need.

So I can ask the DNR questions about this?

 

[Ichthy]

Is the wetland going to be uphill of your pond, or are you essentially expanding the wetlands? The latter makes more since because you already have water collecting there. However, you may not have enough of a contributing watershed to expand or fill the pond. Without seeing the topography of your place I'm kind of guessing here. It would just suck for you to build a pond, and then discover it won't hold water or collect enough (I've seen a guy blow thousands on a pond that leaked and didn't collect a drop of surface runoff).

If the wetland is uphill of your pond, I doubt you'll have enough surface runoff to fill your pond below.


re DNR, they should at least have information regarding pond building for raising sportfish and the requirements it takes (e.g., water depth and area) to keep fish over the winter. Check them out online, you guys have a hell of DNR up there and some great ecologists. Most states offer free pond stocking (usually bluegill, largemouth bass, and catfish) if you have a fishing licencse.

EDIT: Sorry for sounding like a pessimist. Just don't want you to blow a bunch of $ and it not work out.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

Yeah holding water is my biggest concern. The wetland is exactly where I want to put the pond. Instead of water making my yard all damp and squishy everywhere and having maybe 10 very small pools spaced around the area where the pond is shown above, I want to dig down and make the pond to collect all the water that is now spread through the wetland area of my yard. Basically I would be concentrating the wetland into one pond, instead of a spread out marshy area.

I am really not interested in a failed pond. That is why I am trying to learn as much as I can before.

I will contact the DNR, thanks.

 

[Ichthy]

You might be able to make that happen. Someone locally should know enough about your soils to detemine whether they'll hold water. Though the guy with the backhoe and dozer may not

 

[Krelja]

Did you have to test for where the water table was or anything? How would I know if it would naturally fill up?
QUOTE]

We didn't have to check the water table or anything like that. There are a few small natural springs that help feed it. We are also towards the top of the mountain we are on and the pond is down a little ways. It also fills up from runoff in the spring from all the melting snow. I wish I had more detail to the specifics as to how the contractor "sealed" in up so it didn't make a big slop hole, but we did have clay down deeper. When I get the pics up later it might make more sense

 

[Randar]

Actually, Army Corps of Engineers and local DNR's sometimes have guides, grants, etc for creating sustainable wetland areas and will have better information about your local soil, water table, and maintenance issues. Might want to see what you can find there, although you may want to start discussions with some vague information as there may be codes and preservation laws in your way.

then get a big ass bulldozer and start movin' land. Where is the river or water source nearby or will you have to pump it from a well?

My uncle had a nice clear spring on his land and lucked out, has 3 ponds of varying sizes up to a few acres on his land after doing some serious bulldozering.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

I don't have a river or a water source that I know of.

Water just collects, maybe there is a spring but I don't know.

 

[Randar]

Some of the old timers and farmers from the area may know more about the water table in the area, as well. You might also try talking to the University of Wisconsin Extension programs.

http://www.uwex.edu/

They probably have geological resources and people you can talk to. They may even have information about wetlands construction.

 

[Gremlyn]

I'd be concerned about the water that collects there now. What kind of chemicals is the farm using that is running off with the water? If the entire farm going to be developed on? If so, then the chemicals may not be a problem for long, but if any part of the farm is staying I'd be concerned for the health of wildlife in/around the water.

As for depth, I would say you'd be looking at 10'+ depending on your weather conditions in the winter. An easy way to determine your depth would be to find out the average freeze depth of local bodies of water. They'll probably be much larger than your pond, which means they'll not freeze as easily, so you'll probably want to add on some extra depth to be safe.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

I don't know what chemicals are used around me. I do know that lots of little critters live in the small marsh though. I even found salamanders back there, so I doubt the chemicals are that concentrated or bad.

I am thinking a good size section of 15' deep will be necessary to keep fish. I am looking at the DNR site now. This is some confusing stuff.

 

[springer]

if the runoff has fertilizers in it you may get a lot of algae and weed growth. We had a house by a lake in CT and they banned all use of fertilizers on the properties around the lake for this reason.

 

[Randar]

Nitrogen runoff from the field (if the fert heavily) will be an issue creating algae and weed problems if the farm is still there and they do chemical fertilizing. Luckily we might be able to find some Asian carp for you to take care of that! hehe

Over the years I have seen Field and Stream and a few other fishing/wildlife (ducks unlimited) places do things about creating wetlands with ideas, plans, and tips for smaller scale stuff.

 

[Randar]

Just looked it up and found this, with some additional resources at the bottom:

http://www.fieldandstream.com/articles/fishing/bass/where-fish/2004/04/how-build-your-own-bass-pond


And if you do end up doing this, you'd better take a crap-load of pictures. HA!

 

[RegionalChaos]

Have you looked at your zoning laws around this? I've had family that put in a pond before, and there were limits to how big the levy could be built up, so my family tried to dig down deeper to compensate, etc.. Water rights are big issue though that can get a lot of people out of sorts.

 

[Ichthy]

Just looked it up and found this, with some additional resources at the bottom:

http://www.fieldandstream.com/articles/fishing/bass/where-fish/2004/04/how-build-your-own-bass-pond


And if you do end up doing this, you'd better take a crap-load of pictures. HA!

Not to be rude, but field and stream knows jack diddly about anything ecological... All they care about are 10lb bass. Outdoor magazines have some of the worst information I've seen, at least IMHO.

BK,

Your existing marsh sounds pretty darn cool if you already have salamanders in it. They may go bye-bye with a new pond addition, if you care.

PM if you're confused about the DNR stuff, it's what I do for a living.

 

[Ichthy]

I'd be concerned about the water that collects there now. What kind of chemicals is the farm using that is running off with the water? If the entire farm going to be developed on? If so, then the chemicals may not be a problem for long, but if any part of the farm is staying I'd be concerned for the health of wildlife in/around the water.

To add to this, homeowners are as bad or worse than farmers. Farmers at least try to apply things at the correct time and use the correct application rates. Surface water below any urban iarea is disgusting because most homeowners don't pay attention to application timing and rates.

 

[olllllo]

BK you are a freaking pond hipster.

 

[Briansierra]

Try this forum and/or magazine:

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php

 

[Cold_Steel]

Finally I get to help you. I ran my fathers excavation company. First call miss utitlity and have them mark any lines underneath where you plan to excavate.
http://www.ur.com/index.php/equipme...egory=Earthmoving&additional=excavator&id=240
You want to use an excavator. Not a loader, not a bulldozer or maybe a backhoe.
The excavator will allow you to get to CLEAN material. When working in wetlands the earth will swallow up machines. You can get around this by making "mats". They are railroad ties put togethr to form mats. This allows you to distrube your weight so you dont sink.
The "hoe or stick" (arm) on an excavator will reach the muck without getting the machine stuck.
Once you muck(remove all sloppy dirt). You will need to spread it to dry. Leave it rough. Dirt dries fastes from the wind.
Now determine the debth you want stream and ponding area. Get a laser level at the same rental place. Cut the stream with a fall to the pond. Cut it 8" deeper than you want. You will line it with Filter fabric and the line it with rip rap or stone your choice.
Once the pond is cut. You need to "TRACK IT IN" this is when you take the machine and drive over it to compact it down. This will help to control erosion and sediment later.
You can line the pond with a membrane or a clay bed would be better. (Storm ponds are just dug and no linings are used.) Your choice. I would hold costs down and just use the dirt. My dirt down here is clay so BEWARE!
Now you need to install an outflow. It needs to be 3 feet below your dam wall. You will line it with filter fabric and rip rap or river stone your choice. In case of a heavy rain, your pond will now have a place for the water to go. If it didnt it would "follow the path of the least reistist" which usually means the weakest spot and tear the whole thing down. Or one big old hole.
Complete the piping to the pump you are going to use. I dont have much to say about that.
Add water plantings or other plant life. You can eat everything on a pig but the sqeal. Cattails dont squeal. I like that you can eat cattail but beware it spreads! You should look into bioretention ponds for plant lists.
You might want to consider a sedimont trap so you can clean your pond too. However i would skip it.
Now, we sure have moved a lot of dirt. So where did we move it too? You can move it off site or on site. If you move it off site, you are going to pay BIG BUCKS. because now you are putting dump trucks on the property. You could pay to haul it and despose of it.
However dirt is magic. It could turn out someone down the road needed some of the dirt you had and they would come dig it for you. So check around and see. Like I said dirt is magic.
Onsite, the you removed needs to be piled and tracked in. If you dont track it in, it will never dry and its to hard to work with wet. So with your laser lever. Find a place thats low and fill it or find a hill and make a mountain. Just make sure to think like water. It goes to the lowest spot. So dont slope it towards the house.
Now that your on grade pond is dug you need to seed and straw your open areas for sediment control.

 

[Krelja]

So like I said here are some pics of our man-made pond. It is just under 2 acres and 18-20 ft deep at the dam end. It was just sloping down slightly throughout the field but now we the pond and the deer have a nice place to hide out of sight from the road it's a win win

 

[KingKegII]

+1 to whoever said be vague in your prelim discussions w/ the DNR. In particular, you should avoid the term "wetlands" in your discussion. Instead refer to the pool areas as "soggy" or "damp". Throwing around the term wetland is a quick way to get the Army Corp of Engineers into your business.

Sorry, that's all the advice I'm good for. I'm sure you'll do this justice as you do all your projects.

Good luck and Cheers.

 

[Krelja]

Here is a pic of the backside of the dam

And the spillway to keep it at the level we want

 

[KingKegII]

Bump...BK, any progress on this?

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

Nope. We are working on full yard design. We may end up going a different direction. Maybe a few small ponds throughout hte wetland area and boardwalks going around them...

I'll update the thread once we decide.

 

[Catt22]

Compacted clay is nearly impervious to water and makes an ideal liner for a pond. The key is to get it properly compacted to about 95% of it's maximum density. To achieve this degree of compaction requires that the moisture content of the clay be within a specific range and the right compaction equipment. Don't underestimate the backhoe and dozer guys. They often have years of experience in your local area and may have built something similar for someone else.