Want to force carbonate rather than using sugar. Recommendations?

[Sematary]

Pretty much what the title says. I do small batches (5 gallons) and would like to carbonate without sugar. Inexpensive but effective would be ideal. Just looking for recommendations. Thanks

 

[Maxkling]

Are you looking to bottle?

 

[Dgallo]

Kegs. Here’s a decent deal. You can then use an old fridge. If you don’t have one, you can find people giving their old ones away for free or extremely cheap.

https://www.cornykeg.com/product/wh...ock-keg-kit-with-new-aluminum-5lb-co2-tank-2/

 

[Dgallo]

If you’re looking to force carb bottles.. you can use a carb cap but from my understanding you need to then buy the plastic (Mr. beer style bottles) with a screw cap. The carb cap is relatively cheap but you would still need co2 cap or a soda streamer, so it won’t be cheap. Plus the time it will take to fill, shake for 2 minutes and then cap all 48-52 bottle... not to mention the prior work of cleaning and sanitizing Each bottle. I feel at that point the extra $100 is worth it.

if I force carb a beer I can literally drink it 15-20 minutes after taking starting to rack it out of the fv and only one vessel needs to be cleaned and sanitized.

anyway here’s the link

https://www.kegoutlet.com/soda-or-b...IapPgo2tE22KiNIhK7Pm55BncEhyayuQaAuTMEALw_wcB

 

[Sematary]

Are you looking to bottle?

Yes.

 

[Sematary]

If you’re looking to force carb bottles.. you can use a carb cap but from my understanding you need to then buy the plastic (Mr. beer style bottles) with a screw cap. The carb cap is relatively cheap but you would still need co2 cap or a soda streamer, so it won’t be cheap. Plus the time it will take to fill, shake for 2 minutes and then cap all 48-52 bottle... not to mention the prior work of cleaning and sanitizing Each bottle. I feel at that point the extra $100 is worth it.

if I force carb a beer I can literally drink it 15-20 minutes after taking starting to rack it out of the fv and only one vessel needs to be cleaned and sanitized.

anyway here’s the link

https://www.kegoutlet.com/soda-or-b...IapPgo2tE22KiNIhK7Pm55BncEhyayuQaAuTMEALw_wcB

I have Mr. Beer bottles but I honestly like my glass bottles and i trust them more to not get infected.

 

[rsquared]

I don't think there's a good way to force carbonate directly in glass. Your best bet if you're dead set on force carbonating is to do it in bulk in a keg, and then bottle from the keg.

I'm curious what your reasoning is though. Other than not having a little bit of yeast in the bottom of the bottle, what do you think force carbonating will get you?

 

[Sematary]

I don't think there's a good way to force carbonate directly in glass. Your best bet if you're dead set on force carbonating is to do it in bulk in a keg, and then bottle from the keg.

I'm curious what your reasoning is though. Other than not having a little bit of yeast in the bottom of the bottle, what do you think force carbonating will get you?

I really feel like using the sugar is making it a tad sweeter than it otherwise might be. Maybe it's all in my head. My last IPA came out pretty good and I'm still working on the recipe but like I said, it seems like if I were to force carbonate (and maybe kegging then bottling is the answer) then it would taste cleaner.

 

[rsquared]

I really feel like using the sugar is making it a tad sweeter than it otherwise might be. Maybe it's all in my head. My last IPA came out pretty good and I'm still working on the recipe but like I said, it seems like if I were to force carbonate (and maybe kegging then bottling is the answer) then it would taste cleaner.

I'd guess that's all in your head. Sugar should ferment out completely, and while ethanol itself is a little bit sweet, priming sugar is only adding maybe 0.5% ABV.

 

[Qhrumphf]

The sugar ferments out to produce the carbonation. It shouldn't add any sweetness.

Bottle carbing without priming sugar is certainly doable (but it's not "force carbing" unless doing the carb cap plastic bottle route), by bottling with carefully determined remaining fermentation to take place. Some call it "bottle spunding".

However, I cannot stress this enough, it is NOT FOR BEGINNERS. If you don't know what you're doing you can easily end up with bottle bombs that are extremely dangerous

I would never, ever bottle that way without forced fermentation testing showing you beforehand where the limit of attenuation is.

 

[Kickass]

I really feel like using the sugar is making it a tad sweeter than it otherwise might be. Maybe it's all in my head.

Of these two options I’d put my money on the second. That sugar has been processed to other components in a couple days.

Carbonating caps seem to be the best solution, not without drawbacks, of force carbing in a bottle.

 

[Dgallo]

I really feel like using the sugar is making it a tad sweeter than it otherwise might be. Maybe it's all in my head. My last IPA came out pretty good and I'm still working on the recipe but like I said, it seems like if I were to force carbonate (and maybe kegging then bottling is the answer) then it would taste cleaner.

I’d bet the sweetness you are picking up on is from oxidation. Oxidation can take on a slightly caramel or sherry wine favor. It could also be acetaldehyde. But that would come across a more green apple/Apple cider character

 

[Gnomebrewer]

I’d bet the sweetness you are picking up on is from oxidation. Oxidation can take on a slightly caramel or sherry wine favor. It could also be acetaldehyde. But that would come across a more green apple/Apple cider character

^This.
Lightly oxidised (but not badly oxidised) beer tastes sweeter.
Maybe try getting a small CO2 setup and purging the headspace of your bottles before you cap them.
Check out this thread Limiting oxidation: effect of purging headspace O2 in a bottle conditioned IPA.
Also, try to bottle as soon as possible after reaching FG, rather than leaving for weeks in the fermenter - more sediment that way but less O2 exposure. If you want to go a step further, try bottle spunding as per Qhrumphf.

 

[Sematary]

^This.
Lightly oxidised (but not badly oxidised) beer tastes sweeter.
Maybe try getting a small CO2 setup and purging the headspace of your bottles before you cap them.
Check out this thread Limiting oxidation: effect of purging headspace O2 in a bottle conditioned IPA.
Also, try to bottle as soon as possible after reaching FG, rather than leaving for weeks in the fermenter - more sediment that way but less O2 exposure. If you want to go a step further, try bottle spunding as per Qhrumphf.

I generally leave the wort in a single fermenter for 2 weeks. Too long? I'm going to look at the link you provided. Although, tbh, the longer I let the bottles sit, the less of that slightly sweet taste I get and, also, I added my LME and DME much later in the boil this time so maybe the bittering hops (Citra in this case) will give me more of the bitterness I'm looking for

 

[bwible]

You would have to keg, carbonate in the keg, then bottle out of the keg using a counter pressure filler to keep carbonation. Works best if everything is cold. I used to only do this to pull a couple bottles for competitions. Now if I bottle I just batch prime using corn sugar. Corn sugar is 100% fermentable and it won’t make your beer sweeter.

 

[LTBrewer]

It sounds like you want to bottle and have natural carbonation in the bottle. You talk about sugar- what sugar are you using? Regular?, corn sugar? Have you thought about using DME to bottle prime? A little more involved but another method is holding back some of the wort and adding back. What I've done for some mock champagne and cider is to bottle when I know I have just a few gravity points left, and not add anything. This takes experience knowing where things are going to end up. If it were me in your case, I'd continue to let those bottles age a few weeks, and see where I'm at. Is it "sweet" because of unfermentables? Recipe? "The longer it sits, the less sweet it is"- how long has it been in the bottle, in the dark? At least 2 weeks? Are you noticing more carbonation during this time? You may be mistaking a lack of initial carbonation for sweetness.

 

[Dgallo]

Have you thought about using DME to bottle prime? A little more involved but another method is holding back some of the wort and adding back.

Why would he have to hold wort back from brew day? That just silly when all he would have to do is add roughly 6 oz dme to about 10 oz of boiling water, cook it and add it at bottling

he’d have to use a calculator to get the correct amount for his specific beer and level of carb he’s looking for but that’s literally it

 

[Sematary]

Why would he have to hold wort back from brew day? That just silly when all he would have to do is add roughly 6 oz dme to about 10 oz of boiling water, cook it and add it at bottling

he’d have to use a calculator to get the correct amount for his specific beer and level of carb he’s looking for but that’s literally it

I've been focused on an IPA my last few brews and generally use 4 oz of regular table sugar for a 5 gallon batch

 

[Dgallo]

I've been focused on an IPA my last few brews and generally use 4 oz of regular table sugar for a 5 gallon batch

If your brewing ipas, you’re in a tough spot if you’re trying to bottle them. They are the most oxygen sensitive style (even more so if you’re targeting NEIPAS or heavily dryhopped ipas). You really need to limit your o2 exposure at all points. Kegging is honestly the best way to go. If you don’t have the funds right now to make it happen, Your best bet is to actually use some form of carb drop For each bottle..that way you can avoid any transferring and bottle from your primary fermenter, without having to mix in any sugar solution. Also be sure to bottle from a bottling wand and cap each bottle immediately.

The difference in quality of my ipas and their shelf life improved night and day when I switched to kegging. No color change and no aroma/flavor fall off even after 3 months In the keg.

 

[LTBrewer]

Why would he have to hold wort back from brew day? That just silly when all he would have to do is add roughly 6 oz dme to about 10 oz of boiling water, cook it and add it at bottling

he’d have to use a calculator to get the correct amount for his specific beer and level of carb he’s looking for but that’s literally it

That's just one method out of many; krausening has been done for centuries, didn't require another boil or measuring more ingredients; whatever the OP wants to do. And DME prime is what I literally advised. From the recent post he is using table sugar, so there is some room for modification,

 

[Dgallo]

That's just one method out of many; krausening has been done for centuries, didn't require another boil or measuring more ingredients; whatever the OP wants to do.

Yes but what your suggesting isn’t krausening. Krausening is wort with yeast Actively fermenting it and breweries who use this method aren’t saving it for later, They are racking a portion of beer from an active fermenter to a beer that is readY to be inoculated.

what you are suggesting is saving fermentable wort for 14-22 days, where it would absolutely have to be measure in volume and gravity to be used at bottling for priming. Not to mention the delay in using it would allow the possibility for any wild culture that may have gotten in the wort to have now colonized it and now can potential infect the bottles. So you’d have to boil it anyway

 

[Sematary]

That's just one method out of many; krausening has been done for centuries, didn't require another boil or measuring more ingredients; whatever the OP wants to do. And DME prime is what I literally advised. From the recent post he is using table sugar, so there is some room for modification,

What's the advantage to DME over table sugar?

 

[Dgallo]

What's the advantage to DME over table sugar?

Dme is not 100% fermentable like table sugar is so it can help maintain some body. Also it is the sugar that Brewers yeast evolved to naturally consume, so it can actually produce a softer, creamier carbonation.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

Yes but what your suggesting isn’t krausening. Krausening is wort with yeast Actively fermenting it and breweries who use this method aren’t saving it for later

THat's correct, using un-fermenting wort is called speise. The advantage of the method is that you aren't changing the beer's profile at all by adding priming sugar - it's just more of the same beer. It also means you get a little bit more out of a batch where fermenter size limits your batch volume. It does need to be boiled before use for priming (assuming it was frozen on brew day), but only for a minute or so and doesn't need much chilling (if any) before being beer is added for bottling.

Even better, especially for NEIPA, is adding a bit of yeast a day or so before bottling, so it is actively fermenting. That then becomes 'krausening' and gravity at bottling time as well as FG needs to be known to calculate how much is needed for priming. This method ensures yeast is active at bottling so it will consume O2 more quickly if a small amount gets into the beer during the process. Combining krausening with a CO2 purge of bottle head space, and minimising (but not eliminating) bottle headspace should give very good bottled results for hop forward beers.

 

[LTBrewer]

Yes but what your suggesting isn’t krausening. Krausening is wort with yeast Actively fermenting it and breweries who use this method aren’t saving it for later, They are racking a portion of beer from an active fermenter to a beer that is readY to be inoculated.

Krausening is one method out of many to introduce fermentables for carbonation, that was my point. I understand what speise is. I said he wouldn't have to measure out more ingredients, I never said there was no measuring involved. The OP was looking for an inexpensive alternative to using sugar for carbonation, and the first thing mentioned in this thread was to buy kegs or force carb. OP- if you haven't tried what's worked for millions of other brews and primed with corn sugar, might want to try that unless you are brewing according to reinheitsgebot, another term that you don't need to know right now. Probably not as cheap as table sugar but less than a keg, tank, and regulator set. I bet the ingredients you need are patience and carbonation. Good luck with your brews

 

[Dgallo]

Krausening is one method out of many to introduce fermentables for carbonation, that was my point. I understand what speise is. I said he wouldn't have to measure out more ingredients, I never said there was no measuring involved. The OP was looking for an inexpensive alternative to using sugar for carbonation, and the first thing mentioned in this thread was to buy kegs or force carb. OP- if you haven't tried what's worked for millions of other brews and primed with corn sugar, might want to try that unless you are brewing according to reinheitsgebot, another term that you don't need to know right now. Probably not as cheap as table sugar but less than a keg, tank, and regulator set. I bet the ingredients you need are patience and carbonation. Good luck with your brews

Ok