Want to Brew a Vienna Lager

[Begin2Brew]

Your instructions are better than what I would have been able to offer. I have never done the brew in the bag technique before.

Will your 1 gal strike plus 2 gal sparge boil down to 1 gal? After grain absorption loss of course.

Would he benefit from cold crashing longer? Several weeks instead of 3 days?

It would boil down to a bit over 1 gallon. It also takes into consideration trub loss in the boil, grain absorption and loss from the fermentor. It should be close to the volume at bottling.

Would I need to do anything special to the yeast before I pitch it? I've seen some people say that you need to when doing a lager/vienna

No, you do not need a starter with a full vial or smack pack. Both would contain about 100 Billion cells and would be a good pitch for a one gallon batch.

 

[Begin2Brew]

This is the recipe I've come up with after seeing your advice and reading other recipes on this forum/online. Please let me know if I'm totally off base.

For ONE gallon. Looking for a Vienna closer to the lower end of it's IBU guideline (around 20).

Malt:
Vienna 3.5: 2 lbs 86%
Munich 20L: 5 oz 14%

Hops:
Spalter: .20 oz
Hallertauer: .20 oz

Yeast:
Munich: 4 grams

Fire away!

You'll be good with this. You could just use either of the hops. I used both as I had them on hand but using just one would work.

 

[Yooper]

This is the recipe I've come up with after seeing your advice and reading other recipes on this forum/online. Please let me know if I'm totally off base.

For ONE gallon. Looking for a Vienna closer to the lower end of it's IBU guideline (around 20).

Malt:
Vienna 3.5: 2 lbs 86%
Munich 20L: 5 oz 14%

Hops:
Spalter: .20 oz
Hallertauer: .20 oz

Yeast:
Munich: 4 grams

Fire away!

I wanted to double check and ask you about this recipe. I assume that the Munich yeast is a typo, but wanted to make sure as it is NOT the yeast you want for this recipe! Munich yeast is a wheat beer yeast, and makes bubblegum and clove flavors for beers such as hefeweizen.

If you must use dry yeast, you'll need the Saflager w34/70 strain.

 

[RPG27]

I wanted to double check and ask you about this recipe. I assume that the Munich yeast is a typo, but wanted to make sure as it is NOT the yeast you want for this recipe! Munich yeast is a wheat beer yeast, and makes bubblegum and clove flavors for beers such as hefeweizen.

If you must use dry yeast, you'll need the Saflager w34/70 strain.

Yeah, that was a mistake on my part. I thought I read somewhere you could use a Munich yeast in a Vienna. One of the local brew shops has dry Brewferm Lager yeast that I'm going to use instead. I've tweaked the recipe a bit since I found the brewer's friend site. Right now the recipe is:

2 lb Vienna (80%)
8 oz Munich Dark 20L (20%)

.15 oz Spalt Boil 60 minutes
.15 oz Hallertau 5 minutes

Brewferm Lager yeast

OG: 1.056
FG: 1.012
ABV: 5.76
IBU: 20
SRM: 11

 

[Yooper]

Yeah, that was a mistake on my part. I thought I read somewhere you could use a Munich yeast in a Vienna. One of the local brew shops has dry Brewferm Lager yeast that I'm going to use instead. I've tweaked the recipe a bit since I found the brewer's friend site. Right now the recipe is:

2 lb Vienna (80%)
8 oz Munich Dark 20L (20%)

.15 oz Spalt Boil 60 minutes
.15 oz Hallertau 5 minutes

Brewferm Lager yeast

OG: 1.056
FG: 1.012
ABV: 5.76
IBU: 20
SRM: 11

I'd probably take out the dark Munich and either go with .25 pound of melanodin malt (or aromatic malt) or a lighter Munich; and then increase the Vienna malt by the missing .25 pound. I think that much dark Munich is too dark, and too intense. 20% dark Munich is too much, and I'd probably just take it out and use a bit of melanodin malt or regular Munich if I really wanted to use that grain.

 

[RPG27]

I'd probably take out the dark Munich and either go with .25 pound of melanodin malt (or aromatic malt) or a lighter Munich; and then increase the Vienna malt by the missing .25 pound. I think that much dark Munich is too dark, and too intense. 20% dark Munich is too much, and I'd probably just take it out and use a bit of melanodin malt or regular Munich if I really wanted to use that grain.

I read you could use up to 1/3 Munich malt, unless that was a lighter Munich.

 

[TimelessCynic]

If one is new to brewing and wants to make a vienna lager the best would be 100% vienna malt and 100% single hop variety such as willamette saaz tettnanger or halleutaur. And a fermentis dry lager yeast such as saflager 37/40.

Easy. That's all.

Use brewers friends tools to determine how much grain and hops to go for. Aim for 1.040 or 1.045 for a 4.5-5.5% ABV

 

[Yooper]

I read you could use up to 1/3 Munich malt, unless that was a lighter Munich.

Yes, generally you would use a regular light Munich.

I prefer all Vienna malt in my vienna lagers, but some character malt is nice. A bit of Munich is great, but that's too much dark Munich.

 

[RPG27]

Brewing is complete. Currently cooling the wort down to 50F. Luckily it's in the very low 30s outside. Shouldn't take too long. Going to use Brewferm Lager yeast to ferment. 50F in my basement.

 

[TimelessCynic]

Nice! Hope it turns out well!

 

[RPG27]

Nice! Hope it turns out well!

Thanks! Me too, it's an awful lot of work for it to turn out poorly haha

 

[TimelessCynic]

I highly suggest you invest in a 6 gallon glass Carboy or one of those big plastic buckets.

You can do the brew in a bag with a sufficiently large pot on the stove top.

A little more work than a 1 gal batch but the yields are just soo much higher. Plus you can drink the beer in its infancy and watch how the aging process makes it better and better.

 

[RPG27]

I highly suggest you invest in a 6 gallon glass Carboy or one of those big plastic buckets.

You can do the brew in a bag with a sufficiently large pot on the stove top.

A little more work than a 1 gal batch but the yields are just soo much higher. Plus you can drink the beer in its infancy and watch how the aging process makes it better and better.

The brew in a bag made it so much easier than the beer kit I first used. No need to filter numerous times. The thing I learned about doing a 1 gal batch is it can be difficult to measure such small amounts, especially with the hop measurements.

 

[RPG27]

It took FOREVER for my wort to cool to the 50s. I rehydrated the (dry) yeast before adding to the wort. I will leave the carboy at slightly below room temp until the initial fermentation ends, then I'll move it to a cooler spot for more fermentation.

 

[RPG27]

Here's what I have so far:

 

[Yooper]

It took FOREVER for my wort to cool to the 50s. I rehydrated the (dry) yeast before adding to the wort. I will leave the carboy at slightly below room temp until the initial fermentation ends, then I'll move it to a cooler spot for more fermentation.

I'm sure you mean to move it to a cooler spot for lagering, after fermentation ends and after the diacetyl rest.

Normally, you'd ferment a lager at 50 degrees for about 10 days, raise the temperature to 60 degrees, and then rack (if doing that) and move it to a place just above freezing.

I lager at 34 degrees, for about 6 weeks for a Vienna lager.

 

[RPG27]

I'm sure you mean to move it to a cooler spot for lagering, after fermentation ends and after the diacetyl rest.

Normally, you'd ferment a lager at 50 degrees for about 10 days, raise the temperature to 60 degrees, and then rack (if doing that) and move it to a place just above freezing.

I lager at 34 degrees, for about 6 weeks for a Vienna lager.

I'm a little confused. Maybe I'm reading too much. I plan to leave it at room temp for a few days then move it to 50F for a few weeks, and then move it to cold storage. Is this incorrect? What's a more precise schedule?

 

[Yooper]

I'm a little confused. Maybe I'm reading too much. I plan to leave it at room temp for a few days then move it to 50F for a few weeks, and then move it to cold storage. Is this incorrect? What's a more precise schedule?

50 degrees now. That's the optimum fermentation temperature for most lager yeast strains. (Beer temperature, not ambient temperature).

After about 7-10 days, when fermentation slows, it's a good idea for lagers to do a diacetyl rest so that the yeast can really be encouraged to clean up the diacetyl created during primary. That's about 10 degrees higher than fermentation temperature.

After that, lagering is done at near freezing if possible for 6 weeks or so.

So the schedule would be: 50 degrees for 10 days or so/60 degrees for 2 days or so/34 degrees for 6 weeks.

 

[TimelessCynic]

I'm a little confused. Maybe I'm reading too much. I plan to leave it at room temp for a few days then move it to 50F for a few weeks, and then move it to cold storage. Is this incorrect? What's a more precise schedule?

I would do it your way with the following tweaks. Keep it at room temp initially (anywhere around 68 f) until you see air lock activity like a bubble every 5 seconds. Then move it to 50 F until there is no very little bubbling ( 1 bubble every 30 seconds). Bring it back up to 68 F for 2 or 3 days. Then move to as close as freezing as possible for a month.

 

[RPG27]

50 degrees now. That's the optimum fermentation temperature for most lager yeast strains. (Beer temperature, not ambient temperature).

After about 7-10 days, when fermentation slows, it's a good idea for lagers to do a diacetyl rest so that the yeast can really be encouraged to clean up the diacetyl created during primary. That's about 10 degrees higher than fermentation temperature.

After that, lagering is done at near freezing if possible for 6 weeks or so.

So the schedule would be: 50 degrees for 10 days or so/60 degrees for 2 days or so/34 degrees for 6 weeks.

I'm glad you caught that, I was headed down the wrong path apparently. However, this is where I read you should wait until you see bubbling before moving the fermenter to 50F:

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Fermenting_Lagers

"Wait until you see fermentation activity (low kraeusen or bubbles in the airlock) until you move the fermenter to an area (basement or fridge) where you have a constant 48 - 52 *F (9 - 11 *C)."

 

[Begin2Brew]

I'm a little confused. Maybe I'm reading too much. I plan to leave it at room temp for a few days then move it to 50F for a few weeks, and then move it to cold storage. Is this incorrect? What's a more precise schedule?

Yooper is correct on this. Get it fermenting at 50F for the first 7-10 days! Then for a D-rest bring it up to 68F for 3 days, then lager for a month or more.

I sure hope that cap is loose on the jug, if not do so very carefully. During fermentation there will be a build up of C02 and if not vented will break your jug.

 

[RPG27]

Yooper is correct on this. Get it fermenting at 50F for the first 7-10 days! Then for a D-rest bring it up to 68F for 3 days, then lager for a month or more.

I sure hope that cap is loose on the jug, if not do so very carefully. During fermentation there will be a build up of C02 and if not vented will break your jug.

I connected a blow off tube, that picture was after I aerated the wort. I moved the fermenter to my basement where it's 50F. No bubbles yet.

 

[RPG27]

Yooper is correct on this. Get it fermenting at 50F for the first 7-10 days! Then for a D-rest bring it up to 68F for 3 days, then lager for a month or more.

I sure hope that cap is loose on the jug, if not do so very carefully. During fermentation there will be a build up of C02 and if not vented will break your jug.

I took your advice and moved the fermenter down to my 50F basement this morning. I see zero activity so far, no bubbles or churning inside the fermenter. I know lagers obviously take longer but I expected to see something even after one day. Thoughts?

 

[freisste]

I took your advice and moved the fermenter down to my 50F basement this morning. I see zero activity so far, no bubbles or churning inside the fermenter. I know lagers obviously take longer but I expected to see something even after one day. Thoughts?

Often takes a couple days. No worries yet. If it hasn't shown signs after about 72 hours, you may start to be concerned, but sometimes they take even longer than that. Yeast work on their own timetable...and you DONT want to push them to go faster. Slow and steady results in the best flavors (least off flavors).

 

[RPG27]

Often takes a couple days. No worries yet. If it hasn't shown signs after about 72 hours, you may start to be concerned, but sometimes they take even longer than that. Yeast work on their own timetable...and you DONT want to push them to go faster. Slow and steady results in the best flavors (least off flavors).

Starting to see some signs of primary fermentation. No bubbling yet, but a thin layer of foam (krausen) has begun to form. Currently the temp is sitting at 54F.

 

[RPG27]

Currently have about 1/2" of krausen, but I've still yet to see a bubble in my blow off solution. I started fermenting this past Sunday morning. Should I be concerned?

 

[JimRausch]

Currently have about 1/2" of krausen, but I've still yet to see a bubble in my blow off solution. I started fermenting this past Sunday morning. Should I be concerned?

No worries mate. If you have krausen, you have fermentation. As a wise man(Revvy) once said: Bubbles mean nothing. They are not an indicator of fermentation, just an indicator of degassing.(or something like that. He probably put it more elequently).
Lager yeast in particular like to 'stealth ferment'. They're not showoffs like those flashy ale yeasts. Slow and Steady, that's their motto.

 

[RPG27]

No worries mate. If you have krausen, you have fermentation. As a wise man(Revvy) once said: Bubbles mean nothing. They are not an indicator of fermentation, just an indicator of degassing.(or something like that. He probably put it more elequently).
Lager yeast in particular like to 'stealth ferment'. They're not showoffs like those flashy ale yeasts. Slow and Steady, that's their motto.

Thanks! I'd be driving myself crazy without your post because I still haven't seen a single bubble in my blowoff but the krausen is very slowly bubbling

 

[TimelessCynic]

I would be concerned if I had no bubbles. I thought co2 is created from yeast eating sugar? Co2 needs to go someplace. I guess the krausen comes from the yeast consuming oxygen and propagating and getting ready to eat sugar so early stages of fermentation.

But I am no expert. I've only done 1 lager. But it did start bubbling within several days if i remember correctly.

 

[RPG27]

Yeah I don't know, it's definitely fermenting because the krausen is actively, although very slowly, bubbling. Maybe I'm losing co2 somewhere because there hasn't been a peep in the blow off container.