Walnuts, cherries, and pine, oh my!

[MountainBrothers]

I am new to brewing, but I am very headstrong. I understand a lot of people may try to tell me to back off this idea to keep my sanity, but seeing how its too late for that, I am going to start experimenting as much as possible. I have done a lot or looking through other threads and other websites on how to use nuts in brewing, cherries, and pine needles, but never came across one that involved all 3.

Obviously, as you may have figured out, my main ingredients are going to be (there is no detering me away from this until I perfect it) walnuts, cherries, and pine needles. I had this idea for a Christmas beer, but obviously its a little late for that. I want to get this recipe right for next year. I am here to get as much insight as possible. I will be splitting a 5 gallon IPA or wheat (to hold head retention) kit in half in order to try two different methods. Any and all input is helpful. What quantity of cherries will I need in 2.5 gal? Pine needles (I wanted to go with spruce tips, but they are not ripe this time of year)? Walnuts? At what time have you found to be the best to add all the ingredients? How long should I ferment?

Keep in mind this is for a 2.5 gal batch
This is what I am thinking (more or less sticking to normal procedure for the ingredients in the kit, to keep it simple):
-1-2 ounces of blue spruce needles - added half way through the boil.
-2 cups walnuts, steeping, freezing the extract, scraping off the surfaced fats and oils, thawing, and adding extract to secondary
-1/2 lbs. fresh(ish) cherries, mashing, freezing (I heard this helps break down the cell walls to induce flavor extraction), adding to secondary in a steeping bag.

As far as the process goes:
-60 min boil
-3 weeks in primary
-6-8 weeks in secondary
-at least a month bottled
-enjoy

Seeing that I have done nothing but what the kits tell me, this is a pretty big step for me. I am excited, and aprehensive. Please do not try to deter me away from this, or try to tell me that cherries do not belong in beer. I am just looking for some personal insight, preferably from someone that has tried adding one or all of these ingredients or know a basic guidline on how to.

Thanks again!

 

[VonRunkel]

I used 1.5# of cherry puree (from NB) in a 5 gallon batch (secondary)and they came through nicely. I would suggest something less hoppy than an IPA, that way you can showcase the unique profile of the nuts/needles/cherries (maybe a nice pilsner or maybe a hefe...)

As far as the needles and nuts I have no idea. It might be best to dial in the cherries you want and then throw in the needles, dial them in and then go for the nuts. This way you can tweek the recipe as required in little steps. It is more brewing, but hey that's the price we pay.

Keep in mind that the oils from the nuts will reduce head retention, so some wheat might be in order to compensate for it. Also, I think dry needling would be the best way to get the pine needle flavor out without pulling any tannins.

I am looking forward to a follow up on this one.

 

[RonPopeil]

9# maris otter
1.5# roasted barley
1# lactose
12oz C60
12oz chocolate malt
12oz munich 20
10oz flaked barley
8oz oats

mash @ 155, mash out at 170, boil for 60

0.25oz chinook @ 60
1.0oz goldings @ 20
.75 chinook @ 0

ferment with one vial of english ale or london dry (wlp002 or wlp013).

OG: 1.069
FG: 1.023 (english ale), 1.018 (london dry)
IBU: 21
ABV: 5.3

rack to secondary after 7 days and add 1# crushed cherries, walnuts and spruce. secondary for 7-10 days.

cherries will most likely throw your sugars all out of whack. the numbers above are what you should see by the time you rack to secondary. after that it's in god's hands. it will most likely gain some booze and dry out. that's why i have you mashing high and using a poor attenuating yeast. that way if the cherries add too much simple sugar you're still at a respectable FG.

that's one way to go about it. i'm not sure you'll get anything from the walnuts. probably better to add biscuit or brown malt.

 

[MountainBrothers]

Thank you to the both of you for the tips. I can agree with not going with an IPA. Im heading to the brew store in a few minutes to see what they have. Maybe an American wheat, or I like the idea of a Pilsner. I also thought about using a cherry wheat kit, but decided I would rather get a basic kit and do my own thing.

The reason I am planning on walnuts, is because a friend of mine has a tree, and has well seasoned walnuts that we skinned a couple years ago, so I have a couple crates sitting around. If I dont notice any flavor, I will try a more powering nut.

Ronpopeil -- do you think 7-10 days secondary will be enough? I was thinking that with the cherries and their natural sugars, it may take a bit longer. I read somewhere that a guy kept his in secondary for months (he made it sound like it was 6 months or so), and when he was done, there was nothing but the cherry pits left. Of course I also read somewhere that a guy only left it for a couple weeks, and it was fine. I was thinking of keeping it in secondary for at least 3 weeks, maybe bottling it, and if the first one isnt that great, just let the other bottles age for a while, trying one every couple weeks, until I get the right one.

Anyway, wish me luck! I will be brewing in a few days, so I will keep you updated.

 

[RonPopeil]

it depends on your cherries. ideally you don't want a lot of sugars in the cherries because you want to taste them and because we're banking on this being a sweet stout. if you end up using a puree' then you will have to spend awhile in secondary.

ipa could do well with nutty and pine flavors but the cherry messes it up.

a wheat beer could be a good candidate as well. people flavor wheats any which way. i'm just concerned about the nuts. i really don't think you'll get much from them.

 

[mytommygundont]

How much cherry flavor are you looking for? Subtle, pronounced, extreme? Because a general guidline for adding fruit is anywhere from 1/2lb to 1lb per gallon. I would personally lean towards the 1lb per gallon.

Have you ever taken a bite of pine needles? They are extremely bitter. Boiling them for 30-45 minutes is probably going to impart that into your beer. I would suggest dry pining(?) to impart the scent of the needles as the bitterness may be unpleasant. Or if you are set on adding them in the boil, then make sure you adjust your hop additions to account for the added bitterness. Either way I would still add pine needles to the secondary fermenter because the boil would more than likely drive off all of the volatile oils that would create the pine smell.

 

[RonPopeil]

yeah don't boil them. pinesol beer doesn't sound pleasant.

 

[MountainBrothers]

So From What I Gather: Dry Pine (Same As I Would Dry Hop - Maybe Only Dry Pine Half, And Add The Other Half To Secondary?), Use Fresh Cherries As Opposed To Puree, And All Of The Ingredients Will Go Into SecondarY?

I Also Decided To Go With An English Nut Ale, That Way I Get More Body Than A Wheat, And If The Walnuts End Up Not Coming Through, I Still Have A Nutty Base.
I Hear You About The Potency Of Pine. I Walked Around A Tree Farm, Trying Each Kind. That Being Said, I May Boil A Half Ounce Half Way Through,"Dry Pine" And Ounce Before Primary, And Add Another Half Ounce At Secondary. I Think This Is Going To Turn Out Alright.

Thank You All For The Help. Not Sure Why From My Phone, All Words Are Capitalized.

im Hoping To Have A Nutty, Piney, Earthy Taste, WithThe.Cherries Providing A Background Taste, Or Slight After Taste. I Don't Want The Cherries To Be Too Over Powering. I Will Probably Go With The Advice To Use 1 Lbs Per gallon