Very high pH but low alkalinity?

[scruff311]

I'm kind of confused by my municipal water report. It is showing a pH of 10.1, but an alkalinity of 15.9 ppm and total hardness of 44.7 ppm. My light beers (SRM < 10) have had a strange off-flavor of late, whereas the dark ones seem fine. The off-flavor is kind of creamy/cleaner? Hard to describe.

Here is the water report http://www.provwater.com/depts/wq/water_char.pdf

How do I deal with this water?

 

[ajdelange]

I'm kind of confused by my municipal water report. It is showing a pH of 10.1, but an alkalinity of 15.9

pH of 10.1 indicates the presence of hydroxyl ions at concentration 10^(10.1 - 14) = 0.126 mmol/L. Supposing there were nothing in the water but sodium hydroxide. The acid required to neutralize most of these hyroxyl ions would then be about 0.125 mmol/L and 50 times that is the approximate alkalinity or 6.125. Your water has a wee bit of something else in there as well, bicarbonate most proably, and so your alkalinity is higher at 15.9. This is not usual but not that rare either.

http://www.provwater.com/depts/wq/water_char.pdfppm and total hardness of 44.7 ppm. My light beers (SRM < 10) have had a strange off-flavor of late, whereas the dark ones seem fine. The off-flavor is kind of creamy/cleaner? Hard to describe.[/QUOTE]

Your problem probably stems from failure to add acid to lower pH into the desired range for the lighter beers. This is not needed to overcome the alkalinity of the water (which doesn't have any to speak of) but of the malts. You could start with the Primer and get more sophisticated from there.

 

[scruff311]

Thanks for that excellent explanation. Very helpful, thank you.

You could start with the Primer and get more sophisticated from there.

What is the Primer? Would adding either lactic acid or acid malt to the mash help? My mash efficiency as is is quite good at about 85%.

 

[ajdelange]

It's in the Brew Science stickies.

Yes, sauermalz, lactic or another acid are required for light beers with low alkalinity water like yours.

 

[mabrungard]

More than likely, the water utility adds lime to the water supply to protect their piping and reduce corrosion of lead pipes. This is common for utilities that have very low alkalinity water supplies.

Providence is an old town and probably has homes that still have lead piping.

 

[fearwig]

$14, and it's worked well for me so far (as long as you don't forget and leave it turned on, then you'll need some watch batteries...)

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00CH3QZSE/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[scruff311]

Providence is an old town and probably has homes that still have lead piping.

This is true, however my home was built in 1987. I guess this may not matter though because they are treating the water to handle the pipes in the street, not necessarily my house?

 

[scruff311]

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00CH3QZSE/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Awesome. Just bought it

 

[mabrungard]

This is true, however my home was built in 1987. I guess this may not matter though because they are treating the water to handle the pipes in the street, not necessarily my house?

Yep, not your house. Its the other old houses in the city.

 

[scruff311]

So I got the pH meter fearwig suggested and sure enough, the water out of my tap is 10 pH. However, something occurred to me that may make a ton of sense why my beers taste a little off. The problem began when I started supplying the water to my kettle by way of a garden hose. Water ran through it at room temperature, but I'm starting to read that you shouldn't use a garden hose to fill a kettle for strike/sparge water. Is this true?

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[ajdelange]

Yes, that is something you need to think about. Garden hoses are not intended for use with potable water and contain plasticizers that can leach out especially right after the hose has lain in the hot sun for several hours. If you use a garden hose inside that won't be so much of a problem and you can reduce it even more by running the water for a few minutes before you take the water to be used for brewing. Better yet is to buy a hose designed for potable water. These are sold by RV suppliers.

 

[scruff311]

Right, a hose containing stagnant warm water for a period of time makes sense, but this is a brand new 15ft hose only used indoors from a brand new laundry sink. I've only filled my kettle with it using cold water. The water is in contact with the hose for all of 3 seconds. Regardless I'm going to eliminate the garden hose from the circuit, but I'm still curious how much this may be affecting the flavor of my beer.

 

[ajdelange]

New hoses are the worst in this regard as none of the plasticizer that will eventually leach out has had the opportunity to do so. As to the taste: let the hose sit overnight with water in it, draw a glassful and taste it.


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[zwiller]

Are using an activated charcoal filter to remove the chlorine?

 

[scruff311]

No but I'll have one this weekend. The drinking water out of the tap tastes fine though. Does brewing accentuate mineral/chemical flavors present in the water?

 

[fearwig]

Not necessarily, but yeast don't get along with lots of chlorine.

 

[ajdelange]

No but the minerals in the water accentuate beer flavors.

 

[scruff311]

Right, well my 'Chlorides' count from my local water report is 19.5 mg/l and the 'Free Residual Chlorine' is 0.52 mg/l. To my understanding these are quite low. Could these levels still give my beer a chlorine off-flavor?

 

[ajdelange]

The chloride ion will, to most peoples' way of thinking, improve your beer - in fact you could use more. The free chlorine, quite conversely, can react with husk phenols (or phenols from any other source) to spoil your beer by imparting a smoky, plastic-like flavor and aroma. It needs to be converted to chloride. While 0.52 isn't a terribly large amount it is best to be rid of it. See the sticky on Campden tablets on how to check whether it is chlorine or chloramine and what to do about it.

 

[scruff311]

I bought a water filter and just tried it out. After running it for about 10 minutes at 0.5gpm I took a sample to test the pH and taste.

It tastes good, like my Brita filtered water in the fridge. However, whereas the Brita knocks down the pH of my tap from 10ish to 7ish, this filter may have actually increased the pH as the readings I took were about 10.5. Any thoughts on this? Does a Brita function any differently from these 10-inch water filters?

 

[ajdelange]

Yes, it does. It contains cation and anion exchange resins. Anything in the water that isn't H20, H+ or OH- is replaced by H+ (if its a cation) and OH- (if its an anion). As there are equal numbers of cations and anions in any sample after coming out of the Brita there should be equal numbers of H+ and OH- ions implying pH 7.

The water filter you bought is a carbon block filter. It will remove chlorine, chloramine, geosmine... but will not touch any of the inorganic ions. There will, therefore, be no change in pH.

The Brita also has particulate and activated carbon filtration so it too will remove choramine etc.

 

[scruff311]

Ah I see, thank you. Are there 10" filters available that work in the same manner as the Brita filter? How would I identify these?

The Brita also has particulate and activated carbon filtration so it too will remove choramine etc.

Are you saying that this filter I bought won't remove chloramine (assuming you made a typo) even if I run it at a very low flow rate?

 

[ajdelange]

There are ion exchange filters for inline use but these are usually not used except at the output of an RO system. Ion exchange is a pretty expensive way to go if they have to do a lot of work so most do the heavy lifting with RO and use the ion exchangers to get the bits the RO system does not get. There are kits for reef aquarium hobbyists that contain pre and post filters, RO cartridges and ion exchange cartridges. Several home brewers use these. Most do not bother with the ion exchange part as it really isn't necessary for brewing. Some of the guys that have ion exchangers for their aquaria do use the DI water from them.

I specifically said that your carbon block filter will remove chlorine and chloramine but will not remove calcium, bicarbonate etc.

 

[scruff311]

Oh I misunderstood your phrasing. Thanks for all the explanation on this difficult topic of water chemistry. I understand a lot more now. In fact, I just did a taste test with the filtered water, water straight from the tap, and water through the garden hose. Straight from the tap definitely had a chlorine flavor to it, and the garden hose one was straight up rubbery and disgusting. I can't believe I brewed with that water.