Very fine dust-like particles clinging to the inside of the beer bottle

[thehopbandit]

I have done a number of brews now and I have noticed there are very fine, dust-like particles clinging to the side of the beer bottle. At first I thought they would just settle out over time, but they are still there on beers that have been sitting upright for over 3+ months.

Do any of you experience this and what exactly is it? What causes it? My initial guess is that it is either yeast or hop particles. Like I said, they are very small particles and are almost like dust. Why does it never settle? It's like they are statically clung to the bottle.

I run my beers through a metal mesh strainer before going into the primary to remove a majority of the hop sediment. My bottles are meticulously cleaned and sanitized before every bottling.

It was hard to capture a picture of it, but I have included an example. I shined a light through the bottle to highlight the particles.

Any idea on this? Any tips?

 

[BridgewaterBrewer]

I recently had this happen too and in both cases it was with dry hopped beers so I'm suspecting its hop particles but I can't rule out yeast. Rinsing with water didn't get it out of the bottle I opened a few days ago (1st one of that batch which was hoppier than previous batch ) so I soaked in Oxyclean overnight and that worked.

 

[thehopbandit]

I recently had this happen too and in both cases it was with dry hopped beers so I'm suspecting its hop particles but I can't rule out yeast. Rinsing with water didn't get it out of the bottle I opened a few days ago (1st one of that batch which was hoppier than previous batch ) so I soaked in Oxyclean overnight and that worked.

Thanks for the reply. One of my beers was dry hopped, but the others were not. I normally always use pellet hops. However, the sediment on the sides looks more like yeast to me, but I can't say for sure. It definitely comes out of the bottle upon washing, but I just can't figure out why it never settles or what exactly it is.

 

[bonnybunch]

I tend to get this with most of my bottled beers, dry hopped or not. I always assumed it was something yeast related although I carb with table sugar - maybe that has something to do with it?

 

[thehopbandit]

I tend to get this with most of my bottled beers, dry hopped or not. I always assumed it was something yeast related although I carb with table sugar - maybe that has something to do with it?

I'm getting it on most beers, whether they are dry hopped or not. I use corn sugar to prime. I'm thinking something about the glass or bottle attracts/traps particles more easily along the sides. I'd still like to figure out what exactly it is.

 

[BridgewaterBrewer]

There are 1 or 2 other threads that mention this and I recall someone proposing it being related to static electricity and that sometimes the particles are only on one side of the bottle. I usually bake my bottles to sterilize, what method do you guys use?

 

[thehopbandit]

There are 1 or 2 other threads that mention this and I recall someone proposing it being related to static electricity and that sometimes the particles are only on one side of the bottle. I usually bake my bottles to sterilize, what method do you guys use?

I typically soak the bottles in a PBW solution overnight. I'll clean them and rinse them out. On bottling day, I'll make a StarSan solution in the bucket, submerge the bottles for about 30 sec while they soak, drain them, and then store them on the bottle tree.

I'm thinking that it's something along the lines of static charge, too. I have actually noticed the particles are generally on one side of the bottle, like you said. I have no idea what could be causing it, though. Hmm....

 

[boscobeans]

After the bottles have done their time carbonating try giving them a few twists before putting them away to condition.

The yeast should break free and settle to the bottom.

bosco

 

[bigtex52]

I've always assumed they were yeast colonies sticking to the microscopic irregularities on the glass surface. (Think glass is smooth? Try rubbing a piece of cellophane over the surface of smooth glass and feel how rough it really is.) +1 on what bosco said.

 

[beersk]

I've always assumed they were yeast colonies sticking to the microscopic irregularities on the glass surface. (Think glass is smooth? Try rubbing a piece of cellophane over the surface of smooth glass and feel how rough it really is.) +1 on what bosco said.

I'm thinking it's yeast, also. Does the beer taste fine? Are you having clarity issues because of this? How long after the beer has been bottled is this showing up? It's not settling out after being in the fridge for a couple days?

 

[thehopbandit]

I'm thinking it's yeast, also. Does the beer taste fine? Are you having clarity issues because of this? How long after the beer has been bottled is this showing up? It's not settling out after being in the fridge for a couple days?

The beer tastes good, so I don't think it's really affecting the taste. I notice the particles along the side of the glass in beers that have been bottled for two days and also on beers that have been sitting for 3+ months. I'm really starting to believe the particles are clinging, either statically or physically, to the bottle because I have noticed the bottles that have things like a ring bulge tend to "catch" more particles along that ring. The particles look as fine as if you imagined sprinkling baking flour on a bottle...it's very, very fine.

I never really caught this "problem" until recently, so I'm doing a few tests on letting the beers stay cold for a good amount of time and see if that helps. The problem is that I have noticed some of my beers suffer from chill haze (ie very clear when in the bottle and at room temp but become hazy upon being placed in the fridge). I usually get my wort to pitching temps in under 15 minutes with a wort chiller. I don't use finings, but am a little unsure why I continue to get chill haze.

This particle on the side of the bottle thing is more of a curiosity to me. It would be great to figure out exactly what is causing it/what it is.

 

[thehopbandit]

So, just an update. I was doing some more searching around the internet and found that someone quoted Charlie Papazian's, "The Homebrewer's Companion", as saying:

"I have sometimes noticed with curiosity a dusting of yeast adhering to one or perhaps all sides of a bottle of bottle-conditioned beer. It was a total mystery to me until I came across a summary of some research Belgian brewers had undertaken to unravel this aberrant behavior. They found that yeast is electrically charged the same as glass and is usually repelled. Sometimes if the yeast is deficient in certain nutrients, it will take on a different charge and become attracted to the sides of the bottle."

So it sounds like static is the most likely case! Now....I wonder what the solution is!

 

[Revvy]

If you haven't figured it out by now, it's just yeast guys....

 

[thehopbandit]

If you haven't figured it out by now, it's just yeast guys....

Thanks for the reply. I think we all mainly established that it was yeast. The question at hand was more along of the lines of why the yeast were doing that. It sounds like static is the most likely case from the info above. As for ways to remedy the situation....

 

[BridgewaterBrewer]

Hop bandit, my experience is very similar. The particles are very fine and shaking the bottle does not dislodge it. I actually have soaked empties in Oxyclean to get it off because dish liquid soap wasn't enough. I take back what I said about dry hopping, not all my beers with this issue were dry hopped.
Edit: Sorry I missed your post about nutrient deprivation as a cause of this. Most minerals have a charge in solution so that's an easy place to start. I'll have to look at my recipes and see what they may have in common. I don't add minerals but have used different water. I've seen it with both extract and PM.

 

[Chefboubou]

It's funny how we sometime think that we go through something alone.... I bottle a belgian wheat beer last week and today I noticed that dust like particles were hanging on the side of my bottles. The static thing makes me realized that last night, while mashing, I noticed that my freshly ground grains were statically charged. Could it be the grains? I recently started crushing my grains with a Victoria mill. How do you crush your grains? I wonder if roller mills do the same?

 

[elpenoso]

I had this issue when I bottled. I kept having problems with off flavors and couldn't pin it to anything in my process. Eventually it led me to suspect that this "yeast dust" was the culprit.
By just washing bottles in the sink and not scrubbing the dust off the sides it was harboring bacteria that would stick around even after being sprayed with star san. My realization of having to scrub and/or soak each bottle every time is what eventually pushed me to buy kegs.

 

[thehopbandit]

It's funny how we sometime think that we go through something alone.... I bottle a belgian wheat beer last week and today I noticed that dust like particles were hanging on the side of my bottles. The static thing makes me realized that last night, while mashing, I noticed that my freshly ground grains were statically charged. Could it be the grains? I recently started crushing my grains with a Victoria mill. How do you crush your grains? I wonder if roller mills do the same?

Hmm...that could very well contribute to it, but I have been doing extract brews so I can't say for sure. I'm almost positive what I am seeing is yeast particles. It would be nice to know exactly what is causing the static charge, if it is that, so that we could at least try to avoid it. I'm sure it does have some affect on taste since, upon pouring, you'd probably get some of that in the beer.

I had this issue when I bottled. I kept having problems with off flavors and couldn't pin it to anything in my process. Eventually it led me to suspect that this "yeast dust" was the culprit.
By just washing bottles in the sink and not scrubbing the dust off the sides it was harboring bacteria that would stick around even after being sprayed with star san. My realization of having to scrub and/or soak each bottle every time is what eventually pushed me to buy kegs.

I hear you! After bottling a number of batches, kegging looks more and more attractive. Maybe soon...What kind of off flavors were you getting?

 

[Chefboubou]

In my case, it's not hanging to the wall, but floating near the wall. By rotating slowly the bottle, I see the particles floating. Ths, the static thing makes sense to what I see.

 

[Chefboubou]

Here is a pic, it's kind of hard to get a nice shoot at this. I made a short video that makes it easier to see. How could I post a video on HBT?

 

[thehopbandit]

Here is a pic, it's kind of hard to get a nice shoot at this. I made a short video that makes it easier to see. How could I post a video on HBT?

That's pretty much exactly how mine looks. Some of them definitely have that prominent "ring" up along the top of the bottle where it curves outward to the wider portion. I'm assuming the design "flaws" of the bottle at that point catches the yeast there. In addition, what you said about the yeast not stuck to the side, but more floating right near it is a better description of what I am seeing, too. The particles float extremely close to the wall and never seem to settle. It appears that, in most cases, it tends to be concentrated on one side of the bottle. From what I'm seeing so far it looks like the design flaws in the bottle and static could possibly be the causes.

As for the video, you could always upload to YouTube and share the URL or upload to another file hosting service that lets you embed.

 

[MedBrewer]

I noticed something similar in my newly bottled beer (it was bottled 4-6-13) tonight (3 nights after bottling). Would this be to soon to diagnose the same thing? Could it just be yeast falling out of suspension at this point?

 

[fishfoolz]

It appears to be a serious infection! I recommend you box up all of the beers and send them to my address for disposal. I will not even charge you a disposal fee! If the problem continues we can set up an exchange program for the bottles. Lol, don't worry man, try to filter better when you bottle if it bothers you. A good piece of clean, sanitized cloth can work good over your filler tube.

 

[BridgewaterBrewer]

It appears to be a serious infection! I recommend you box up all of the beers and send them to my address for disposal. I will not even charge you a disposal fee! If the problem continues we can set up an exchange program for the bottles. Lol, don't worry man, try to filter better when you bottle if it bothers you. A good piece of clean, sanitized cloth can work good over your filler tube.

It's not related to the amount of yeast as far as I can tell.

 

[BridgewaterBrewer]

 

[pabloj13]

So, just an update. I was doing some more searching around the internet and found that someone quoted Charlie Papazian's, "The Homebrewer's Companion", as saying:

"I have sometimes noticed with curiosity a dusting of yeast adhering to one or perhaps all sides of a bottle of bottle-conditioned beer. It was a total mystery to me until I came across a summary of some research Belgian brewers had undertaken to unravel this aberrant behavior. They found that yeast is electrically charged the same as glass and is usually repelled. Sometimes if the yeast is deficient in certain nutrients, it will take on a different charge and become attracted to the sides of the bottle."

So it sounds like static is the most likely case! Now....I wonder what the solution is!

That's really interesting. The one batch I had this on WAY worse than the others is one with cultured yeast that stalled out way before FG. These guys were probably pretty sick and nutrient starved...

 

[thehopbandit]

View attachment 121528

Yep! That is pretty much exactly why I am seeing, too (+/- some). Notice how it tends to form around the imperfection (the circular indented bottle ridge).

I did some experimenting and even after putting the bottle in the fridge for 3+ weeks, those particles still remain suspended/clung. Unfortunately, it doesn't appear that there is really a way to settle them out...

 

[BridgewaterBrewer]

No, long term refrigeration does nothing. Soaking in Oxiclean also doesn't work. I tried a strong bleach solution in one bottle and I think it worked but I'd rather not use bleach. I imagine a little oxiclean and scrubbing with a bottle brush would work, but that would be extra work and believe or not I don't own a bottle brush. The clinging particles appear in every bottle within the same batch even though I'm always using at least a few bottles that are new (ie, have only contained commercial brew), so I don't think this is due to "dirty" bottles.

 

[BridgewaterBrewer]

A lot of research shows yeast need calcium to flocculate together so lack of calcium could be the issue. I do have soft water so I'll try gypsum next batch.

 

[vp1]

I may as well thread jack instead of starting a new thread with maybe the same issue.

I've seen the clinging on some bottles as well but along with the clinging yeast I've had some odd looking guys take hold. You can make them out in the pictures below. This was a mini batch with raspberries and was a gusher. Any ideas?



The last one is the little mfers out of the bottle after some vigorous shaking.