ventless condensation hood

[omockler]

How tall are your ceilings in that room? Looks like a great project but I'm not sure I would have the vertical space to build a hood then add the condenser to the top of it.

 

[phertwo]

9 ft ceilings. But vertical height is definitely not necessary for this, you could have the unit sitting on the floor if you wish. I only mounted my unit to the ceiling because I have no space in my tiny brew area since the water heater is in the way. Also, the ceiling provided me with a good way of mounting the unit.

In fact, if I mounted the unit lower I would have better efficiency from my pond pump. Vertical height really starts to restrict the output on pumps (head height).. If you can mount the unit lower, do it. There are endless ways that this system could be designed.

 

[TrainSafe]

Could this system function effectively if it were installed upside down from your configuration? Obviously, the location of the drains would change. Doing this would put the "in" for stage 1 close to the top, and the crossover tube near the bottom.

I'm just wondering about how to modify this for use with a hood that is closer to the ceiling. Trying to decide between this system and the vent system to the exterior that others are using.

 

[klyph]

If you made a lid that sealed on your kettle, and plumbed the steam to a bucket of water with a diffuser at the bottom, you could accomplish the same thing for much less time/money. Just like a bong, er sorry "water pipe".

 

[juvinious]

Perhaps getting a hood similar to the one below to completely cover the kettle and force the movement of the steam into the fan that pulls the steam. Any condensate that is near the boil can just drop back in without touching something that you wouldn't want it to be touching and returning to the boil.

Clicky.

 

[Lucky_Chicken]

Could this system function effectively if it were installed upside down from your configuration? Obviously, the location of the drains would change. Doing this would put the "in" for stage 1 close to the top, and the crossover tube near the bottom.

I'm just wondering about how to modify this for use with a hood that is closer to the ceiling. Trying to decide between this system and the vent system to the exterior that others are using.

That should work either way it is forcing the air/ steam through the tubes

 

[TrainSafe]

Thanks.

 

[CidahMastah]

Stellar work. I need to come back to your design right after I wrap up a couple brew projects and consider this design for a fall build! Very cool.

 

[phertwo]

Yep, like Lucky_Chicken said, you can orientate this system anyway you want since your are forcing air/steam through an Open System.

Unfortunately klyph, I think that the setup that you mentioned is a Closed System. A closed system like this would require a higher pressure within the piping to 'break though' the water, kind of like when you blow bubbles in a glass of water with a straw. I think the difficulty with this system is that you would need a fan that is capable enough to create this higher pressure - this would be a challenge with my setup since the range fan is just powerful enough to push the vapor through open tubing. Now you may be able to do this is you had a lid that sealed onto your pot, a la pressure cooker. Then you wouldn't need a fan at all.

But as far as I've read and understand, its best to whisk away unwanted boil-off/vapor as it prevents DMS from getting back into your brew. That's why I'm thinking that an open system is maybe the best since it will have a reasonably higher flow rate.

Oh! I did forget to mention with my setup that I did position the Stage 2 heat exchanger like that for a reason *Steam comes in at the top and exhausts at the bottom... I am feeding the cool water from the bottom of the Stage 2 copper pipes, reason being that I want to have even distribution of cool water traveling up the pipes. If I fed cold water from top, the water would just fall down the copper pipes, and most likely only through a few pipes instead of evenly filling all of them at the same time. Also, this creates a counter-current method of heat exchange, which is most efficient, being that the cold water flows one way and the hot vapor flows in the opposite way.

So, if you just flip my system you will have to feed the water from the top, which isn't going to be as effective. But with some changes this can be solved. Maybe the cross over pipe can go from the bottom to the top, so instead of an " U " shape (my system is an upside-down " U "shape) you can make an " N " shape. But like I said before, there are many ways to approach this.

If you can just easily run a fan through your wall to the outdoors, I would definitely recommend doing so (like most people do). Its by far the easiest to do. I would only be considering the steam condenser method if you are stuck in a spot where you can't directly or easily plumb your exhaust outside.

...

As an update, I did another brew this weekend and used the steam condenser system again. I again was stuck with another situation where I had to boil-off a lot of liquid, but the steam condenser just gobbled all the vapor up. Once I was able to run the boil at a normal light rolling boil I saw a reduction of ambient temperature to a very comfortable level. I expect that once I get my liquid volumes dialed-in so I don't end up having to boil-off over 2 gallons in 60 minutes, I will have a very efficient system and only see a slight increase in ambient temperature.

Also, I made a 'quick fix' for extending my range hood lower to the pot. I took a tea towel and two magnets (left over from making my stir plate) and fixed it to the back of my range. It greatly improved range and its ability to capture all of the steam - I would say 99% now. Also, the tea towel seemed to catch many of the rouge-drops that collect and fall from the range. For now I think I will stick with this until I think of something better.

 

[TrainSafe]

Thanks for the detailed response. Your system is clearly engineered very well. I am amazed at how effectively it operates.

If you can just easily run a fan through your wall to the outdoors, I would definitely recommend doing so (like most people do). Its by far the easiest to do. I would only be considering the steam condenser method if you are stuck in a spot where you can't directly or easily plumb your exhaust outside.

I think I understand why you say this. You have invested many hours into the design and fabrication process. Does this sentiment still hold true when you consider the elimination of a fresh air make-up system? The risks of pulling a downdraft in the flu of a furnace or hot water heater?

 

[kellzey]

When is the first batch of hooch going to be ready? LOL

Nice shotgun condensor!

 

[phertwo]

kellzey....shhh....

TrainSafe, The reason I made that comment is because it is just easier to throw a fan up and a hole in the wall. I'm always a proponent of keeping things simple, and simple usually is best. However, in my case I had no choice. The system I built is rather 'simple' in my mind, but if I could have just run a simple fan and a few feet of duct to an outdoor vent then I would have done that. I think that my brew location is probably more of a rare instance where I have no immediate path to the outdoors..

I also mentioned this because I wouldn't want anyone to go through all the effort if they could have simply ported an exhaust a few short feet to the outdoors.

So, having said my whole disclaimer, there are a few benefits that I have seen with my system.
- I don't have to worry about drawing in/out hot water tank fumes or furnace fumes because this system does not mess with any cold air intake. The system keeps a perfect equilibrium within my utility room, if anything it just circulates the air. (I must mention that my hot water tank has a completely sealed with a separate intake and exhaust port, and my furnace is in a completely different part of my house (the garage), so I don't have any concerns)
-I can contain the smell of brewing. While I can smell the brew inside, there is no odor (aroma to me) outside. This is a big deal because I live in a row of town-homes. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't get away with making the block smell like brewing - condo people love to complain.
-I will hopefully be able to control/reduce the odor (aroma) inside with experimenting with charcoal filters on the exhaust port. This isn't really necessary as my wife doesn't mind the smell (is this odd?), but I would like to be able to eliminate it as much as possible.
-With an optimized system (still working on this) I should be able to maximize the heat exchange from steam to the cooling water, meaning that the ambient temperature in my utility room should only elevate slightly. If I had a fan constantly forcing air in from outside I would be at the mercy of the outdoor ambient temperature. If its -20C(-4F) or 32C (90F) outside, that's what my brew room would be.
-Removes steam/moisture/humidity in my utility room (traditional fan exhaust systems do this to). If I had a damp basement (which I don't) then I could run this system as a simple dehumidifier - impractical but plausible. Anyways, I can get away with the smaller fans which is adequate enough to draw all of the steam into the system.
-The system is compact and fits in my ridiculously small brew space.
-No special parts needed to build, mostly plumbing supplies)
-I can add a simple garden hose port to stage 1 and 2 for wash-down if I find that the unit needs to be washed (doesn't smell after 2 brews). The unit is sealed and water proof, so I can add detergent and rinse it all out without removing it from the wall. Its designed to channel water to its drain ports, so it won't harm the fans. Easy cleanup.
-Reservoir becomes pre-heated dishwater.
-Cool factor (my friends stare blankly when I explain it to them).

Other potential benefits I think are probably a moot point compared to a simple exhaust/intake from outside: Noise & energy cost savings.

 

[stamandster]

Any updates on your optimized system? I'm looking to do something similar. Do you think you would benefit at all from incorporating stage one with stage 2? So misting inside a manifold?

 

[rrmiller]

I'm resurrecting an old thread because I find myself in a similar situation. I want to put my brewery in the back storage room of our basement garage. There isn't an easy way to put a vent in without running long stretches of duct work, running a vent through our bedroom (not popular with SWMBO) or punching a hole through the concrete foundation of the house.

I came across and wondered if something similar could be made to deal with the moisture generated by brewing.

Any suggestions?

 

[Beholder]

No way that condenser tank could keep up with the moisture produced from a full boil. It is sized for dampness in your clothes, and doesn't work perfectly (a fair amount of humidity is still exhausted to the exterior, but it collects some). It works on the principle that the room temp water in the pan will condense some of the vapor out of the warm air from the dryer.

I think you may want to consider a dehumidifier sized for your boil-off amount. It will run in the background pulling moisture out, but you'd have to have a reasonably sized room to buffer the moisture or the machine may not be able to keep up.

 

[rrmiller]

I figured that was the answer I'd get........

I was wondering if there was a way to increase the efficiency of that style of system, maybe with some ice, a better conductor, larger surface area......