Valves for Brutus Ten

[SugarJohnson]

Alright I am really getting confused. Stand is almost welded up and I need to order valves. I Think I am going to use 3/8 STC Valves. I use the good old cajun 4 inch HP burner. Want to reuse all my pipe, burners, fittings etc. I had no problem using 3/8 before with a 0-60 reg and a needle valve. STC has two models that will work and are identical except the Cv vlaue. One is like 2.3 and the other is 4.8. One is like 20 bucks cheaper as well. Does ANYONE know if the smaller Cv/orifice valve will cause problems? I can't look at another freakin valve list I'm done!

 

[Schnitzengiggle]

I don't know about your valve question, but I'm interested in seeing pics of your rig.

 

[SugarJohnson]

I have to upgrade my membership first to post pics. With the cost of this I will have to squeeze out 25 bucks!

 

[Schnitzengiggle]

Support the HBT!

It gives us this great forum to answer questions not unlike the one you've just posted.

Plus I wanna see your rig.

 

[kladue]

The 2.3 CV unit will work well, the "CV" is a term for liquid flow at 2 PSI pressure drop through valve. I have the same burner and have it connected with 1/4" od tubing and a 1/4" solenoid with a lower CV rating than the one you looking at so you should be okay running 10+ PSI.

 

[dragonspeedster]

If your looking for valves !!

I have two new Asco Red Hat Valves part # 8210G15 for trade or sale.

Make me an offer or trade. Looking for love temp controllers, barley crusher, plate chiller, or what do you want to trade !!

These are the identical valves used in the Brutus 10 only brass instead of stainless. I have these installed in my setup and work great.

Buy $50.00 each plus shipping or free pickup

 

[SugarJohnson]

Thanks a lot Kladue. I have read your input on many other posts. I will get the cheaper 3/8 valve to match my pipe size. Thanks again, this forum is fantastic.

PS-Just cracked open a Belgian Cherry Wit I have been waiting patiently for. I feel somewhat in the bag after 2 22oz. I only have about 15 all grain brews under my belt but this recipe is a keeper for sure! 10 pounds of door county WI tart cherries in this brew!

 

[kladue]

If you want to copy the taste of the belgian cherry beers there is a company that sells a frozen Morello cherry puree that is the same type of cherry that is used in europe.

 

[SugarJohnson]

Kladue,

I am about to order the 3/8 STC and saw the CV on my valve is 0.23 or 4mm not 2.3 like I said before. Next one up is 16mm. Still think the 0.23 will work?

 

[kladue]

The .23" orifice should work fine, the orifice size that I have is .14", just to confirm, the burner manifold pressure is going to be 10 PSI or greater?, if so you are set to go. I checked the spec's for the valves and you want the .6 CV not the .23 CV, the orifice size on the .23 CV might be too small. These valves are sized to work with 10+ PSI, but will probably work okay with a low pressure propane system, would not recommend them for NG as the 4 MM orifice is too small.

 

[SugarJohnson]

Kladue,

I should have just posted the link. This is the one I'm thinking about in 3/8

http://stcvalve.com/solenoid_valve_specifications_and_dimenisons_2S_2W.htm

Yes I am running HP burners at a manifold pressure of about 20 psi.

Thanks man

 

[kladue]

Thank you for the clarification, the 2W160-3/8 will work for both high pressure and down to NG pressure, so if you change out burners in the future you do not have to change solenoid sizes. The 4" burners need high pressure to move enough air/fuel to get the high output that they are capable of, reducing the gas pressure cuts the output even if jet size is increased to compensate.
Good luck with the build

 

[mplutodh1]

Thank you for the clarification, the 2W160-3/8 will work for both high pressure and down to NG pressure, so if you change out burners in the future you do not have to change solenoid sizes. The 4" burners need high pressure to move enough air/fuel to get the high output that they are capable of, reducing the gas pressure cuts the output even if jet size is increased to compensate.
Good luck with the build

Kladue,

Been following several of your posts regarding valves. I think I'm understanding the ASCO/STC valve situation better. Curious - based on this reply above.

We're still undecided on whether to go NG or LP - we'd like to build our brewery as suitable for both fuel types as possible - so if we decide to switch at a later date we can minimize the costs. The cost of the STC valves are much more favorable.

Can you tell me, would the 2W160-3/8 STC valves be suitable for either fuel source?

(http://www.stcvalve.com/solenoid_valve_specifications_and_dimenisons_2S_2W.htm)

Thanks!

 

[kladue]

Both the 3/8" and 1/2" STC valves have the same flow ratings and should work well with either fuel source. If you are going to be switching from LP to NG you will be swapping burner jets to get correct fuel flow for either fuel, might be easier to stay with low pressure LP.
It might be more cost effective to look at the low pressure furnace valves with standing pilot as an alternative to simple solenoid valves. With the standing pilot valves you have the safety shutdown when the pilot flame goes out and the cost is not that much more than simple solenoid control. The valves can be found on Ebay and the pilot burners also, but the pilot burner jets will need to be swapped for LP use. With a brew rig that gets swapped around it would be safer in the long run to go with the standing pilot system when you are brewing outdoors, as wind and pilot flames do not cooperate very well.

 

[mplutodh1]

Thanks Kladue - so you're suggesting something like this: http://www.heater-home.com/product/...urce=googlebase&utm_medium=comparisonshopping

What I'm reading here though is they're 24 Vac so we'd need a transformer to wire it up to just a standard house wiring would we not?

So do these valves work well with the Love TS switches? - Basically the same wiring ideas as it would be with the ASCO - just these pilots perform better with wind?

Appreciate your help!

 

[kladue]

Yes these valves will require a 120-24VAC transformer which will work well with the love TS switches, one 100VA transformer could be used for all the valves. In addition to the valve you will need to buy a pilot burner and thermocouple for each valve. This setup will prevent a nasty suprise if the propane tank flow stops and starts or wind blows pilot out while you are not watching. Look on Ebay for parts if you have time, else shop for the standing pilot gas valves with LP conversion kit.

 

[SugarJohnson]

Now that I have used the stc 3/8 valve I must say they do work well for the money. Easy to plumb and hook up and appear nice quality. 3/8 works well as long as you make sure and get the ones with the larger orifice.

 

[mplutodh1]

Yes these valves will require a 120-24VAC transformer which will work well with the love TS switches, one 100VA transformer could be used for all the valves. In addition to the valve you will need to buy a pilot burner and thermocouple for each valve. This setup will prevent a nasty suprise if the propane tank flow stops and starts or wind blows pilot out while you are not watching. Look on Ebay for parts if you have time, else shop for the standing pilot gas valves with LP conversion kit.

So do I have this right?

Parts Needed (HLT & MT burners):

2 x Honeywell Q314A4586 Pilot Burner
2 x Honeywell VR8200A 2132 Valves
2 x Honeywell Q390A1046 Thermocouple
1 x 120 VAC to 24 VAC 100 VA Transformer

+ Burners, Love TS Switches, gas piping, etc.


Is this the right style Pilot Burner assembly (Q314A4586)?
http://www.pexsupply.com/Honeywell-Q314A4586-Honeywell-Q314A4586-Pilot-Burner-4113000-p

Would this transformer work? I can't tell the difference when searching for these on eBay or elsewhere - they range from $20 - $200 but all are the same in regards to 120 VAC to 24 VAC 100 VA transformers.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...nics_MGT24100_MGT24100_24VAC_100VA_Class.html

Thermocouple:
http://www.pexsupply.com/Honeywell-Q390A1046-24-Thermocouple-1721000-p

Thanks again!

 

[kladue]

You have the right parts selected, for LP use you will need a couple other items.
Pilot Orifice for LP http://www.hvacpartsoutlet.com/lporificeforq314q345q3450q3451q3452pilotburnershoneywell390686-1.aspx
Valve conversion to LP (New regulator spring) http://www.pexsupply.com/Honeywell-393691-Natural-Gas-To-LP-Conversion-Kit-for-SV9500-SV9501-SV9502-VR8200-VR8300%253F-11596000-p

In case you did not know the regulator on the control valve can be set for maximum burner firing level, you will need a low pressure (11" Wc) LP regulator for the gas manifold feeding the burners.

 

[mplutodh1]

You have the right parts selected, for LP use you will need a couple other items.
Pilot Orifice for LP http://www.hvacpartsoutlet.com/lporificeforq314q345q3450q3451q3452pilotburnershoneywell390686-1.aspx
Valve conversion to LP (New regulator spring) http://www.pexsupply.com/Honeywell-393691-Natural-Gas-To-LP-Conversion-Kit-for-SV9500-SV9501-SV9502-VR8200-VR8300%253F-11596000-p

In case you did not know the regulator on the control valve can be set for maximum burner firing level, you will need a low pressure (11" Wc) LP regulator for the gas manifold feeding the burners.

Awesome! Appreciate your help. My dad and I are still trying to put our parts list together and wanted to make sure we figured out the gas / burner situation - it's a bit confusing to me so you've helped clear it up.

We'll sit down and add these to our plans/build list.

Thanks!

 

[mplutodh1]

Kladue, can you explain the role the thermocouple plays in this?

Does it act as a shut off then? So if it's "hot" the valve stays open but if if the thermocouple senses the pilot is out the gas shuts off?

Thanks!

 

[mplutodh1]

Ignore my last question - I answered it myself.

However I do have a follow up - this is leading me to question if the High Pressure Banjo Burner will work with this setup? Do we have to try and find the low pressure models? The High pressure states "only works with 30 psi regulator"

 

[kladue]

The difference in the burners is the opening size in the gas jet, the cast iron parts are the same. If you would like to drill your high pressure jet out to low pressure size I can provide a link to an orifice sizing table, or you can just buy one ready for low pressure. For those that wonder about the thermocouples purpose, it generates the current needed to hold the safety valve open when it is hot, that is why it takes about 30 seconds of pilot flame before enough current flows to hold valve.

 

[mplutodh1]

So Kladue, apologize, just want to confirm. With the 11" WC, and the Honeywell VR8200A 2132 valve setup - I'd need to be running low pressure propane burners?

And would you mind providing that link to the guide for what drilling size? That'd be great!

Thanks for all your help

 

[mplutodh1]

So I found the guide I think, in case anyone reads this thread in the future and is curious:
http://www.joppaglass.com/burner/lowp_chrt.html