Using wood for a control box.. Smart or Dumb

[passedpawn]

The topic here: The OP wants your opinion, Smart or Dumb. If you state dumb, and back that up with whatever you think supports that, it's not a personal attack. Right?

I will say this: my first panel was in a metal enclosure, and my current one is plastic. Plastic is MUCH easier to deal with. Same with wood I'd bet.

 

[user 163849]

Okay.

Trimixdiver is not the only person on here with an electrical background. And everyone with an electrical background is not necessarily in agreement with him. Opinions are fine when they are stated as such. But when they were stated as "fact" I reckon I took it a little personal.

My career of corralling electrons began in 1968, I retired in 2006. The last 25 years of that time I was involved with the protection and contols of high voltage transmission lines as well as the generation of electrical power. Now THOSE were some control panels! So in my own opinion I DO know what I am looking at when I see a few components mounted on a bit of plywood, even though I do not agree with trimixdiver's "facts".

Besides, what do I care, I just brew in my garage on a propane burner. Though I do use a heat stick (BrewHardware's Hot Rod) with a 2kw element for hot water in my garage. I'm sure that the 60 year old timer that I use to control it might raise a few eyebrows, even though it is not made of wood.

 

[user 163849]

The timer.

 

[passedpawn]

The setup

Good experiment. Seems to corroborate the data in this report.

http://fire.nist.gov/bfrlpubs/fire08/PDF/f08006.pdf

 

[user 163849]

Thanks. For several years my main responsibility was the acceptance testing and certification of newly installed high voltage substation equipment. Though I now lack most of the test equipment, the curiosity and desire to "prove it" when a question comes up remains. Chemo and radiation have happened since then so I make no claims that my test results are anything more than my test results. But I do have a ball out in my garage shop.

 

[augiedoggy]

I was under the impression from many threads here that Auberins was better quality.... Maybe I asked the wrong initial question....

Their pids may be yes since they might actually be made by them of they may control quality by manufactuer instead of just rebranded like the ssrs and such they sell.
Although I own 8 off brand ones and yet to have any performance issue with them...
But the other products they sell like the sensors.pids switchs and enclosures are all someone elses mostly from china suppliers.. they just buy in bulk mark up the price and stock/sell from a local warehouse... they offer better support if you need help wiring a switch or led indicator but for most this isnt needed since theres plenty of resources online and here...they do what many companies do now day and Give the false impression that its a suerior product made by them.... I can tell you how many times I see the truth of this lie every day at work....

quick trivia question Did you know that levis jeans was bought out and closed up years ago? all the jeans sold under thier logo are now made by another company in egypt.... its kind of like the pabst blue ribbon or whats happening with rolling rock... at least those use the same recipe

theres a difference between being cheap and being an educated consumer..

 

[augiedoggy]

The timer.

I used to adjust those timers all the time when I was the maintenace dept for a restaurant, plaze owner.

 

[augiedoggy]

These $36.00 PID's and $15.00 or less SSR's are nowhere even close to being commercial grade, or change that to industrial grade components. These are light duty imitations. Heavy duty PID's can cost over $300. each. These components do the job but you get what you pay for and we aren't paying much. PID's are plastic cased, SSR's are meant to mounted to heat sinks. What you mount the plastic component in or heat sink too is really not the point. We are really just splitting hairs here.

the 3-600k machines I service use plastic pids that arent any different in design as the "cheap $36 dollar" ones you speak of..I have seen and replaced many watlow and omron ones...in my opinion there nothing speacial about them other than better quality components... cheap ones are usually copies of these. Mine were all less than $25 btw...

 

[passedpawn]

quick trivia question Did you know that levis jeans was bought out and closed up years ago? all the jeans sold under thier logo are now made by another company in egypt....

Where did you learn that? According to their investor site, it's still a privately held company, owned by descendants of the Levi Strauss. I don't doubt that the jeans are made in another country though.

 

[augiedoggy]

Where did you learn that? According to their investor site, it's still a privately held company, owned by descendants of the Levi Strauss. I don't doubt that the jeans are made in another country though.

Well I remember it being on the news about 10-12 years ago that they underwent some kind of buyout or sale and all the factories were going to be closed and they would be made made by someone else in egypt...
one of the dye companies that made the dye for the jeans was local and have since gone out of business... My father worked for the chemicaltank truck outfit who accidentally dyed the erie canal blue when I was a kid

I guess my point is regardless whos still getting fat off the profits the "image" of levis jeans was that they are an American icon .... thats now gone and closed up in America and made in egypt.... yet if youve seen the latest commercial or were your average commercial you would never know...
I have many customers in in manufacturing (or used to be) and many or them are now owned by larger competitors and pedel foriegn products they import and rebrand as their own some use the old manufacturing warehouses for storage and some just move to an office suite.... Sometimes its not as bad as that...
for example I was at fisher -price toys a few weeks ago and somehow I missed in the past that they are now owned by Mattel who was a competitor.... Yet they continue to market under the old brand? to me thats to deceive the customer, if not what else is it?
yet so much is going that way... we have korean deawoos being sold as chevies and the people buying them usually have no idea...
joke is on the uneducated assuming customer.

 

[atoughram]

I looked at a newer pair of 505's that I have and couldnt find a "Made in XX" label.

 

[augiedoggy]

double post

 

[augiedoggy]

I know this is a bit off topic but my Phillips plasma tv died yesterday and when I pulled it apart to troubleshoot the problem I discovered that every component inside was made by Samsung.... So its a Samsung rebranded and sold under the phillips and magnavox brandname as well as a samsung according to the model #... And its an old one from 2006 which from what I read was before Phillips stopped making their own home theater equipment and leasing their name to other manufacturers to make money off of....

you just never know what your buying these days...

 

[BigFloppy]

you just never know what your buying these days...

THATS exactly why I make my own beer

 

[BayerischBier]

Now that's SMART


Sent from my iPad using Home Brew

 

[geoffey]

For what it's worth, a guy I know in the neighborhood built a Kal Clone, and since he builds custom skateboards for a living he decided to build his control box out of wood. It looks outstanding. He also used cheap knockoff Chinese electrical components, i.e. not Auberins.

I didn't think anything of it for the past two years. Then I found this thread. Hmmm... It's some kind of miracle I suppose. But he's still alive and his house hasn't burned down.

Turns out a little common sense goes a long ways.

Also, your insurance company won't give a **** what material your box was made of if you burned down your house. If you pull a permit and pass the electrical inspection is what they care about. So if you're not pulling a permit then it's a moot point about UL listing and insurance.

 

[Maxkling]

So if you're not pulling a permit then it's a moot point about UL listing and insurance.

Why would you pull a permit? Your plugging a device into an outlet... An old wood tv is not most likely UL approved, has electrical components mounted in a wood box, and not "safe" to today's standards. If it burns your house down nothing can be said from your insurance company other than a tv caused a house fire.

 

[geoffey]

You'd perhaps pull a permit for the installation of the outlet or the spa panel, etc. Not many people have a 240v 30 or 50 amp GFCI outlet existing in their house.

 

[augiedoggy]

For what it's worth, a guy I know in the neighborhood built a Kal Clone, and since he builds custom skateboards for a living he decided to build his control box out of wood. It looks outstanding. He also used cheap knockoff Chinese electrical components, i.e. not Auberins.

I didn't think anything of it for the past two years. Then I found this thread. Hmmm... It's some kind of miracle I suppose. But he's still alive and his house hasn't burned down.

Turns out a little common sense goes a long ways.

Also, your insurance company won't give a **** what material your box was made of if you burned down your house. If you pull a permit and pass the electrical inspection is what they care about. So if you're not pulling a permit then it's a moot point about UL listing and insurance.

No need to be sarcastic...chances are he wont have an issue with the wood but that fact remains that metal or plastic rated for electrical use is a better chioce... and they make chances even better that there wont be a fire.

 

[augiedoggy]

You'd perhaps pull a permit for the installation of the outlet or the spa panel, etc. Not many people have a 240v 30 or 50 amp GFCI outlet existing in their house.

thats true.... I could always pull a permit and have mine inspected again like I did after installing the one for my hot tub...If I wasn't moving next year.

 

[augiedoggy]

Why would you pull a permit? Your plugging a device into an outlet... An old wood tv is not most likely UL approved, has electrical components mounted in a wood box, and not "safe" to today's standards. If it burns your house down nothing can be said from your insurance company other than a tv caused a house fire.

I used to tinker with those old tvs and they all had the electronics like the tubes and such installed on a giant metal platform... and many times the more dangerous components were covered with metal shields to contain a violent failure if one occurred so they often took percautions that your average home builder might not realize are a good idea...
Which is why my opinion can be wood is ok IF you take additional percautions in building but metal or plastic is a better suited medium to reduce risks.

 

[geoffey]

No need to be sarcastic...chances are he wont have an issue with the wood but that fact remains that metal or plastic rated for electrical use is a better chioce... and they make chances even better that there wont be a fire.

Wasn't trying to be an ass, just using sarcasm for the purpose of adding some humor. While I don't disagree with your statement above I really just wanted to add that I know someone who has done this and hasn't burned their house down. Yet.

 

[augiedoggy]

I wonder if this Guy used a wooden enclosure?

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/my-ssr-exploded-can-anyone-help-troubleshoot-507986/

 

[Saboral]

I'm not sure why anyone would want to build a wooden control box. A simple weathertight plastic enclosure that can be drilled will cost you less than 20 at Lowes or Home Depot.

I seriously doubt your wood box would catch fire, but you can't tell me that the construction time and materials will make it more economical than the aforementioned plastic enclosure.

An additional note, if your panel is being used within proximity of your kettles, which I assume it is, you really should consider a relatively weathertight enclosure to prevent any water spills or splashes from entering the box.

In the end I doubt that it's really going to be a safety issue, but I don't think the value is really there considering other options.

 

[LandoLincoln]

I'm not sure why anyone would want to build a wooden control box.

They look nice?

 

[z-bob]

I'm trying to imagine a kind of "steampunk" controller box, with knife switches, brass-bezel gauges, incandescent indicator lights, etc. (not sure if it really fits the genre since it's electrical rather than pneumatic or hydraulic, but it would look cool.)

 

[BeagleBrewing]

The choice of material for a control box is only a one part of the total design. Wiring methods, circuit protection, equipment layout, SSR cycle time, etc. among many others all have an impact on the end result.

I chose wood for my enclosure because I have the tools to build any size box I might need, including a CNC router for cutouts, etc. I did a bit of research before selecting the materials combined with many years of industrial control system experience. I have zero concern that the wood will ever present a hazard in my brewing operation. That said, if I were designing a brew stand that would be used 24/7/365 by someone with limited training, experience and motivation I would never have considered using wood. Much of my working career was spent designing control systems to be used in such an environment.

Having designed and built the brew stand hardware and software I am well trained, gaining experience and highly motivated. I am rarely more than a few feet away from my brewing operation. If that is your environment as well I submit the material chosen for your control enclosure is a very minor element of the total design. Many other factors will dominate the safety and operation of your brewing setup.

Just another opinion...

 

[RussPDX]

Well...it took much longer than I had expected, just with life and whatnot, but my control box is built.
For the GFCI I bought a spa panel from Lowes for about $70 and wouldn't you know it, but it comes I a metal box. At first I didn't think there was enough room but I I was able to mount everything in that box. So after all the commentary, no wood for me, but I accomplished my goal of a compact sturdy relatively low cost controller.

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