Using Too Much C02

[jeremyjudd]

I kegged beer for the first time last week. It seems like I'm using too much C02. A few questions - I have a 5 lb tank. It started out filled to 800 PSI. Is that full? How high should it be?

Second, I forced carbed my first beer. It was an English Bitter that I'd had in the fridge for a few days beforehand cooling (I understand it takes less C02 this way and carbs easier?).

I turned the tank up to about 7 psi, shook vigorously for about 5 minutes and then left in the refrigerator at about 39 degrees (+ or - 3 degrees) for three days. I've been drinking it for the last 3 days, serving at 14 PSI, and the carbonation seems about as it should be, but my tank is down to about 550 PSI.

At this rate, I'll be lucky to get 3 batches out of this tank.

Is that about what I should expect?

I turn the gas off after serving, is this also what I should be doing?

At $15 a refill, using C02 could add a lot to the cost of my operation...

Any suggestions for using less c02? Any tips are great, new to kegging....

Thanks.

 

[Schnitzengiggle]

I kegged beer for the first time last week. It seems like I'm using too much C02. A few questions - I have a 5 lb tank. It started out filled to 800 PSI. Is that full? How high should it be?

Second, I forced carbed my first beer. It was an English Bitter that I'd had in the fridge for a few days beforehand cooling (I understand it takes less C02 this way and carbs easier?).

I turned the tank up to about 7 psi, shook vigorously for about 5 minutes and then left in the refrigerator at about 39 degrees (+ or - 3 degrees) for three days. I've been drinking it for the last 3 days, serving at 14 PSI, and the carbonation seems about as it should be, but my tank is down to about 550 PSI.

At this rate, I'll be lucky to get 3 batches out of this tank.

Is that about what I should expect?

I turn the gas off after serving, is this also what I should be doing?

At $15 a refill, using C02 could add a lot to the cost of my operation...

Any suggestions for using less c02? Any tips are great, new to kegging....

Thanks.

1. when you put your tank in the fridge and it chills, your PSI will fallbecasue of the contraction of the gas from the cold temperatures, so it will fall some.

2. once your beer equalizes you can leave your co2 on, where is it gonna go?

3. if your guage continues to drop check your corny posts, fittings, and regulator.

4. 800 psi is completely full, at least safely

5. I doubt you are using that much co2, the compression of the gas from the lower temps will make a considerable difference, and whether you have you keg charged all the time, or turn it off between shouldn't make a huge difference. I have about 4 kegs through my kegerator, and have only filled my co2 tank once, it is at about 400psi right now, and that is over the course of about 6 months...

6. Your proabaly fine unless you have a leak.

 

[jeremyjudd]

Thanks for the insight. So I can leave my co2 on at serving PSI all the time? That won't eventually start to carbonate the beer at that PSI? Or that won't happen because it's only in the headspace?

 

[Jaysus]

Thanks for the insight. So I can leave my co2 on at serving PSI all the time?

yes

P.S. in 2010 I carbonated 11 kegs and served 9.5 kegs with a 5lb CO2 tank that is kept inside the kegerator.

 

[logdrum]

Thanks for the insight. So I can leave my co2 on at serving PSI all the time? That won't eventually start to carbonate the beer at that PSI? Or that won't happen because it's only in the headspace?

It will equalize to your set psi. Turn your regulator down to 11-12psi (for about 2.3-2.5volumes) & you're good to go.
Check this out:

http://sdcollins.home.mindspring.com/ForceCarbonation.html

 

[autobaun70]

Also, keep in mind that the high pressure gage is not a measure of fullness of the tank. It does typically give you fair warning your are about to run out by dropping way down below 450-500. Over the course of a bottle fill, it is not uncommon for it to go up and down in pressure just from changes in temp. My bottle is outside of the fridge in an unheated garage, when the temp gets cold, it goes down a bunch. The only way I know of to measure actual gas on hand is to weigh your bottle and deduct the empty weight (usually stamped on the bottle itself) to get an idea of your remaining gas.

 

[Schnitzengiggle]

It will equalize to your set psi. Turn your regulator down to 11-12psi (for about 2.3-2.5volumes) & you're good to go.
Check this out:

http://sdcollins.home.mindspring.com/ForceCarbonation.html

+1, I have 10 ft lines to my tower, and serve at about 13psi, w/o excessive foaming.

In addition to logdrum's link here is another that helped me out a bunch:

https://files.pbworks.com/download/j2vW1oh1Dv/draftquality/18182336/DBQM_Full.pdf

 

[jeremyjudd]

Greatly appreciated. thanks for the links. I will read up on everything tonight.

 

[malkore]

also cold beer doesn't use less CO2 to carb it up.

cold beer lets CO2 into solution more easily...so it would take less time to achieve consistent carbonation.

again, its a sealed system so even if the beer heats up, the same amount of CO2 is still inside the keg (if its not leaking). but dispense that keg when its warm and the beer carb levels will be off and the beer will go flat more quickly once out of the keg.

 

[jeremyjudd]

Alright - one more question on this. If I can just leave my serving pressure at 10-12 PSI on all the time, and eventually the pressure will equalize, if I'm serving a beer with a recommended carbonation of 7 psi, won't that over carbonate for the style?

That was my reasoning for turning off the serving pressure after serving. I figured leaving it on would cause my English Bitter to overcarb. Not the case? Doesn't matter?

 

[ksbrain]

If you want to serve two different beers at two different pressures, you need a dual regulator. But if you just have the one beer, set up the regulator for 7 PSI and leave it like that. Generally you choose a single pressure and leave it there.

In the ideal world, each beer is served at a "perfect" pressure, but in the real world you only get one or two pressures so you make do.

 

[logdrum]

Alright - one more question on this. If I can just leave my serving pressure at 10-12 PSI on all the time, and eventually the pressure will equalize, if I'm serving a beer with a recommended carbonation of 7 psi, won't that over carbonate for the style?

That was my reasoning for turning off the serving pressure after serving. I figured leaving it on would cause my English Bitter to overcarb. Not the case? Doesn't matter?

You're confusing pressure and carbonation. Carbonation is the result of your beer absorbing co2, and pressure is, well technically , resistance to flow. Carbonation is expressed as volumes of co2. Your recommended carbonation will be something like 2.5 volumes, to achieve that consult the above charts & apply the parameters. Ideally you'll work out the length of serving lines ( which adds additional resistance) to balance your system.

-d

 

[Schnitzengiggle]

Some of it has to do with beer line resistence, for instance since I have 10' lines, I can serve at higher pressures without excessive foaming, if I were to have 3-4' lines and trying to serve at 15psi, I would have an entire glass of foam. The AHA Draft beer quality link I posted has a really good explanation of how beer line resistence works, and has the formula for how long your lines should be taking into consideration the distance the beer must travel, temperatures etc... It's called line balancing, and it will make a big difference to your pour and foaming if you balance your system. The Brewer's Association Draft Beer Qaulity manual's chapter 5 explains it in detail. and it is an easy read, check it out.

 

[craigmil]

It's called line balancing, and it will make a big difference to your pour and foaming if you balance your system. The Brewer's Association Draft Beer Qaulity manual's chapter 5 explains it in detail. and it is an easy read, check it out.

Very awesome link thanks! This explained it all so clearly including height to tap, line resistance, etc.

 

[Schnitzengiggle]

Very awesome link thanks! This explained it all so clearly including height to tap, line resistance, etc.

No problem, I am an AHA member, and I am an advocate of supporting them. Becasue they pffer so much free information, and host so many brewing related events I would encourage you and anyone else to sign up, the membership can be a bit pricey, but it supports homebrewing, and like I said they have some awesome info out there.

Besides if you ever attend the Great American Homebrew Festival, or the National Hombrewer's Conference it is ell worth the membership.

Anyhow support the AHA!

Cheers!