Using some honey

[pilgrim1981]

So this is about my fourth homebrew. I wanted to just throw caution to the wind and try something out. Just wondering what you guys think about my grain bill and other ingredients and if you have any recommendations. I am pretty set on using what I have but if you have any input on anything I need to be aware of I would be very glad.

6lb Maris Otter LME
1lb Midnight wheat from midwestsupplies
2lbs honey
1 oz sweet orange peel
1 oz UK Kent Golden pellet
2 oz French Strisselspalt pellet
Munton and Fison Ale yeast

I expect a slightly longer fermentation for the honey. Mostly wondering about all the wheat I am using. From what I read it might be a heavy load of wheat. I am wondering about mashing it. I just use a large kettle and bags. Thanks for any input you might have.

 

[JR_Brewer]

I wanted to just throw caution to the wind and try something out.

Go for it!

A few notes... here's something I like to reference regarding grains - Ye Olde Malt Chart. Closest thing on it is Chocolate Wheat, but that should be close enough. Looks like it doesn't require a mash to convert, so just give it a nice steep.

As long as you're not looking for any style in particular, it's going to be fine. As they say, it will be beer.

Out of curiousity, what's your hopping schedule?

 

[ewebb]

Looks interesting, but remember that with 2lb of honey, this could be a pretty big beer. In the area of 1.08 if memory serves. I think you want to use you want to use around 5% of your grain bill in wheat if its for head retention. If you want flavor to, well then just go at it.

Be sure to use a slow pasteurization technique for the honey to ensure that it plays nice with the wheat, but also to preserve some of the aroma. (hold it at about 200F for 2.5 hours in the oven, don't let it boil) Expect to lose a LOT of the honey flavor through fermentation, but preserve some aroma (hence the slow pasteurization of the honey). If your wanting to keep the flavor, take out some of the honey and substitute in honey malt or brumalt.

Keep us updated with how it comes out, as it looks like something I might try sometime. I especially like the idea of the sweet orange peel.

 

[VonAle]

I just cracked open a Christmas ale that I bottled 2.5 weeks ago.

I used 6 oz honey malt in the grist and added 1# mesquite honey in the fermenter on day 3. The honey flavor is definitely there.

(I warmed the jar of honey in hot tap water, and then opened the jar and poured directly in the fermenter.)

I'm not sure which of the honey additions made the biggest difference, but 6 oz honey malt is way cheaper than 1# honey.

 

[ewebb]

@VonAle

Mesquite Honey in a Christmas ale? I LIKE!

 

[VonAle]

@VonAle

Mesquite Honey in a Christmas ale? I LIKE!

I was given the impression that the darker honey leaves the most flavor behind.

 

[ewebb]

I was given the impression that the darker honey leaves the most flavor behind.

I think there are varying opinions on that. Personally, regardless of what kind of honey I use I think I get the same flavor, mostly an aftertaste. That being said, the variety of the honey an noticeably affect color of the finished product, depending on the ratios. (adventures in mead making in college....) The difference with me could be the fact that I slow pasteurize any honey I use to prevent wild yeast and microbe contamination. This is leaves more aroma than rapid pasteurization, but still deadens the most delicate flavors.

In the end, I think cooked honey all tastes the same.

 

[VonAle]

I think there are varying opinions on that. Personally, regardless of what kind of honey I use I think I get the same flavor, mostly an aftertaste. That being said, the variety of the honey an noticeably affect color of the finished product, depending on the ratios. (adventures in mead making in college....) The difference with me could be the fact that I slow pasteurize any honey I use to prevent wild yeast and microbe contamination. This is leaves more aroma than rapid pasteurization, but still deadens the most delicate flavors.

In the end, I think cooked honey all tastes the same.

Well, this was my first brew with honey. The mesquite sure did make the beer darker. I wanted an SRM of 15, and what I got now is more like a dusty brown. (18-19 ?)

 

[pilgrim1981]

Thanks you all. I was not aware of the pasteurizing technique so I will give that a try. Thanks for the info on the mash too. I was thinking about picking up some honey malt at the HBS tomorrow so I think I might back off the honey and throw some of that into the mix.

As far as hopping goes, these are just what I happen to have around. They are marked as aroma hops but I figure I might give the kent a try as the bittering at the start of the boil and then use the french for the aroma for at the last five along with the orange peel in a hop sack. If you suggest that I really need the bittering hops I might pick up some of that tomorrow too.

Thanks everybody.

 

[pilgrim1981]

Figuring out how to use these threads still.

 

[3PegBrew]

Honey flavor won't disappear as fast as you would think when fermenting beer. Honey takes a long time to ferment. I made a nice wheat beer with honey once, it turned out nice with a dry and sweet finish thanks to the honey.

If you find brewing with honey is fun, try meads.

 

[ewebb]

here is BYO article on brewing with honey. they give a better explanation of the slow pasteurization process then i did.

http://byo.com/stories/item/322-brewing-with-honey

 

[pilgrim1981]

Awesome. Thanks for the article. I think I will try that out and tell you guys how it goes. I also picked up some honey malt today so I might throw some of that into the mix to keep it sweet. Pretty excited for this brew. It will be after thanksgiving so I'll report then!

 

[pilgrim1981]

Well, I just bottled. If anyone is interested this is how it went.
I wound up adding 1 lb of Grambrinus Honey Malt and cutting the honey down to 1.3 pounds. I also added 10oz of light brown sugar.
I added the honey about a minute after flame out.
Came out a beautiful deep brown. Flavor before bottling was nice. Not sweet but not crazy dry either. The honey definitely gave the brew some complexity and with the wheat in there it has a great body. Looking forward to having it carbonated. I'll give you thumbs up in a couple weeks. (Although, I will be cracking one or two open a little early for Christmas I think.)
OG was 1.061 and FG was 1.020 so about 5.4%.

 

[jonmohno]

Surprised it finished that high. Never had midnight wheat, but the honey malt probably will show through pretty good. Those 2 # there may have made it the 1.020 finish unless the yeast is pretty low attenuating or a combo of both. Interested in how this turns out.

 

[rodwha]

I'm interested too.

I've been attempting a nice strong honey flavor as I really enjoyed a Blue Moon Honey Wheat, but have had a very hard time. I've tried everything that's been suggested from mild honey malt use, heavy honey malt use, a little honey, a lot of honey, honey @ 10 mins, honey at FO, and honey after a week of fermentation, as well as a mix of honey and honey malt.

But then I made a recipe for a light ale to compare to a typical light American lager, but as usual I begin tampering with the recipe after having bought my supplies, and increased the volume, and so to help thin it a bit I added a moderate amount of honey @ FO, and was pleasantly surprised by how well the honey flavor came through.

Were you using honey to thin it a bit or for flavor?

 

[trbig]

The difference with me could be the fact that I slow pasteurize any honey I use to prevent wild yeast and microbe contamination.

Honey is naturally intimicrobial/antibacterial. That's why it doesn't spoil... ever. Only food product that doesn't. It's been used for thousands of years as an antibacterial wound treatment because of this.

If you're worried about wild yeast, put the honey in with your steep water. Anything over 140 degrees will kill any wild yeast. It may make the brew a touch darker, but that usually only occurs if you take it up to boil.

I see this is a month old now. Did you try the batch yet, and what were your methods/results?

 

[pilgrim1981]

Well the first post is a month old. I just bottled a couple days ago though. Now I am just going through the long wait. I'll tell you what I think about it.

The honey flavor before bottling was very subtle, like a faint aftertaste of honey. Not a lot of the sweetness. I almost think I would use some lactose next time to add a touch forward sweet. But we will see.

 

[rodwha]

Do post back when you taste the final product!

 

[pilgrim1981]

Well, it turned out great. I am dubbing this Barliman's Best in honor of The Hobbit and my Tolkien obsession. Carbonated early because I carbed it like it was 5 gallons but wound up closer to 4. But it is in the fridge and has a nice head and I do not expect any bombs. It has a very nice body and a wonderful head. It is almost savory with a present sweetness in the aftertaste a slight bitter in the front. I am so happy with this recipe. Kind of a honey porter or and almost a nut brown ale. I fermented at about 70F so I think that helped the sweetness, but there is still some honey flavor in there. The Midnight Wheat leaves it just one shade away from black, a very deep brow. What makes me the happiest is that I brewed a recipe of my own. I plan on brewing it again. I have not made the move to all grain yet because I just don't feel like I have the equipment but I might try to replicate this for my first all grain. Doing a Rye-PA next though. In the words of Jay-Z - "On to the next one."

 

[jonmohno]

Well, it turned out great. I am dubbing this Barliman's Best in honor of The Hobbit and my Tolkien obsession. Carbonated early because I carbed it like it was 5 gallons but wound up closer to 4. But it is in the fridge and has a nice head and I do not expect any bombs. It has a very nice body and a wonderful head. It is almost savory with a present sweetness in the aftertaste a slight bitter in the front. I am so happy with this recipe. Kind of a honey porter or and almost a nut brown ale. I fermented at about 70F so I think that helped the sweetness, but there is still some honey flavor in there. The Midnight Wheat leaves it just one shade away from black, a very deep brow. What makes me the happiest is that I brewed a recipe of my own. I plan on brewing it again. I have not made the move to all grain yet because I just don't feel like I have the equipment but I might try to replicate this for my first all grain. Doing a Rye-PA next though. In the words of Jay-Z - "On to the next one."

good job. But I would refrigerate them all before they start gettting too carbonated. Carbonating 4 gallons when it is 5 is going to give you some healthy bubbles. And from my experinece it doenst do well over time with alot of foam and a cabonic oxyegantion type thing to it.

Whoops. Just read you have refrigerated them. good job again. I think your getting a bit of sweetness from halted carbonation because you refrigerated them when they didnt max out the priming carbonation,which is a good thing since you wont get bottle bombs and as long as carbonation is good. Also fermenting at 70 degrees doesnt have anything to do with sweetness, maybe esters or possibly sometimes offness/funkiness. Possibly hotness even, but depending on what yeast. But it can be a good thing sometimes maybe in a complex brew.