Using fruit...steeping vs. secondary fermentation

[CJnCincy]

I brew quite a bit, but have never attempted a fruit beer. With the COVID19 stay at home order here in Buckeyelandia I've found myself cleaning out the ole freezer downstairs (I found a brisket I'm gonna smoke tomorrow). I also found roughly 8.5lbs of frozen raspberries and cherries leftover from previous pickings on the homestead years back. I'm thinking 8.5lbs is about the right amount for a beer....but when do I add them.

Ray Daniels' book "Designing Great Beers" mentioned that it is pretty much awash between both methods in terms of flavor and popularity.

I'm leaning towards steeping just because the fruit was frozen upon being freshly picked and has not undergone any pasturization normally found in commercial products...and its also really broken down after being frozen for several years.

However, Im curios what those of you who brew fruit beers think is better....especially if you've done both. I'm sure there are various pro/cons of each method.

My recipe so far is as follows (using the steeping method):
7 lbs 4.0 oz BARKE Pilsner Malt (Weyermann) (2.0 SRM)
2 lbs 2.0 oz Viking Wheat Malt (3.0 SRM)
8.0 oz Acidulated (Weyermann) (1.8 SRM)
4.0 oz Viking Cookie Malt (30.5 SRM)
8 lbs 8.0 oz Raspberry/Cherry Mix (steep for 30min).
0.50 oz Marynka [11.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min
0.50 oz Lublin [5.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min

Est Original Gravity: 1.058 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.007 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 6.8 %
Bitterness: 24.2 IBUs
Est Color: 52.3 SRM

 

[Dgallo]

The method I found to be the best is to add the fruit to the primary at the tail end of fermentation. This has helped maintain the most flavor and aroma from the fruit in the finished beer. Not that I have true science to back this but what I think makes it work so well is that most yeast is still present so it quickly starts fermenting the fruit preventing any lag time but since fermentation is not as ferocious, it helps prevent a lot of aroma from being blown off in the process. It’s the only method I use now and I’ll never use a different method.

 

[coonmanx]

The method I found to be the best is to add the fruit to the primary at the tail end of fermentation. This has helped maintain the most flavor and aroma from the fruit in the finished beer. Not that I have true science to back this but what I think makes it work so well is that most yeast is still present so it quickly starts fermenting the fruit preventing any lag time but since fermentation is not as ferocious, it helps prevent a lot of aroma from being blown off in the process. It’s the only method I use now and I’ll never use a different method.

Same method I now use.

 

[Drunken Draftsman]

I typically put my fruit into a secondary and rack over it after fermentation. This is the only time I use a secondary for any beer. Although, now I'm questioning why I don't just add the fruit to my primary. I guess in my mind I add less oxygen carefully racking onto the fruit rather than dropping fruit into my primary.

 

[CJnCincy]

There probably aren't many on the forum that grow or use unprocessed fruit, but I'm wondering if steeping the fruit is safer given it has never been pasteurized?

 

[Leezer]

I’ve only used fresh fruit: blueberries, raspberries, strawberries, and rhubarb without any issues. I freeze first, then thaw and use a handheld blender or potato masher to breakdown further. After this I add a measured amount of vodka and let the mixture sit in the refrigerator for at least a few days. Then I add to primary at tail end of fermentation. My favorite so far was a strawberry rhubarb wheat.

 

[Dgallo]

There probably aren't many on the forum that grow or use unprocessed fruit, but I'm wondering if steeping the fruit is safer given it has never been pasteurized?

Instead of having to seep it You can bring two cups of water in a big pot to a boil and then add the fruit. Let when the water gets back to a boil. Turn it off and Put on a lid and leave it for 20 mins. Then when it cools, aid the fruit to your fermenter

 

[Jag75]

I add rack over fruit as well . I dont like the idea of dropping in my fermenter. I've used blueberries, peaches, and apricots. Frozen then thawed . The apricot I pureed though. Never had issues with blueberry or peaches. Sometimes dealing with fruit in a beer is just a pain , especially when it's for someone else .

 

[Dgallo]

I add rack over fruit as well . I dont like the idea of dropping in my fermenter. I've used blueberries, peaches, and apricots. Frozen then thawed . The apricot I pureed though. Never had issues with blueberry or peaches. Sometimes dealing with fruit in a beer is just a pain , especially when it's for someone else .

Dropping them in will introduce far less oxygen and the oxygen that is introduced in that quick period will be scavenged by the yeast to ferment the fruit.

If you rack into a secondary, you are racking into a vessel that is entirely full of air. From the point you begin racking and to the point the fermentation is rampant enough to clear the entire head space of o2 your beer will be in contact with oxygen, so I’d say at least a minimum of 24 hours. At this point you’ve also racked the beer off the majority of its yeast and May not consuming all the dissolved oxygen and could produce e acetaldehyde. This method presents more negatives than positives

 

[Jag75]

You make a valid case Dgallo. When I do this I actually add the fruit , purge with co2 then close transfer . Fermentation always kicks up again that same day. Youve never steered me wrong so the next time I brew a fruit beer I will add the the main FV and see how it goes . I use a Cf5 so I would just take out the temp coil and add the fruit . Sounds a like a lot less work, which I'm a fan of

 

[Drunken Draftsman]

You make a valid case Dgallo. When I do this I actually add the fruit , purge with co2 then close transfer . Fermentation always kicks up again that same day. Youve never steered me wrong so the next time I brew a fruit beer I will add the the main FV and see how it goes . I use a Cf5 so I would just take out the temp coil and add the fruit . Sounds a like a lot less work, which I'm a fan of

I'm brewing a fruit beer this weekend or next weekend and plan on doing the same. Why waste my time and energy transferring if I can just add to my primary? Easier and better, sign me up!

 

[CJnCincy]

So I ended up using the steeping method, just because I wanted to ensure pasturization of the fruit and, like Draftsman, didnt want an extra step. Also factoring in, my glass carboy was the only fermenter open, so the thought of stuffing 6lbs of fruit down that narrow hole and all the splatter that would occur wasn't inciting me.

For steeping, I cooled the wort down to 170 and added the fruit. Because the fruit was frozen, it dropped the temp significantly to ~145. I raised the temp back to 165 and held it there for 30min.

Notes so far....the color has a very nice medium red hue...wasn't expecting that at all. OG was about what BS3 predicted at 1.050. I did tweak the recipe a bit from what I previously posted. I've added it below for those interested.

8.00 gal Water
7.50 g Lactic Acid (Mash) added at beta anamalysis rest
1.00 Items Campden Tablets (Mash) added at beginning of mash
7 lbs 8.0 oz BARKE Pilsner Malt (Weyermann) (2.0 SRM)
2 lbs 2.5 oz Viking Wheat Malt (3.0 SRM)
8.0 oz Acidulated (Weyermann) (1.8 SRM)
6 lbs Raspberry - Red [Steep] steep 30min at 170 after end of boil
0.40 oz Magnum [15.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min 22.8 IBUs
4.41 g Epsom Salt (MgSO4) (Boil) Water Agent
1.00 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 10.0 mins) Fining
0.50 oz Lublin [5.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 3.3 IBUs -
1.00 Items Servomyces (Boil 10.0 mins)
German Ale II (White Labs #WLP003) [yeast cake from previous fermentation]

Measured Original Gravity: 1.050 SG
Bitterness: 26.2 IBUs

Mash Step Heat 8gal of water to 104 F, add grain, hold 30 min
Mash Step Heat to 140 F, hold 30 min
Mash Step Heat to 158 F, hold 30 min

 

[Jordan Logo]

The method I found to be the best is to add the fruit to the primary at the tail end of fermentation. This has helped maintain the most flavor and aroma from the fruit in the finished beer. Not that I have true science to back this but what I think makes it work so well is that most yeast is still present so it quickly starts fermenting the fruit preventing any lag time but since fermentation is not as ferocious, it helps prevent a lot of aroma from being blown off in the process. It’s the only method I use now and I’ll never use a different method.

How long do you usually keep the fruit in the primary, and about when is the "tail end" of fermentation? Are you saying something along the lines of if you have an estimated FG of 1.010, to add the fruit at like 1.020 and keep checking gravity until it hits 1.010?

 

[Dgallo]

How long do you usually keep the fruit in the primary, and about when is the "tail end" of fermentation? Are you saying something along the lines of if you have an estimated FG of 1.010, to add the fruit at like 1.020 and keep checking gravity until it hits 1.010?

7 days typically. adding the fruit will more than likely change your fg so I wouldn’t base it off that. But yes, I add the fruit once I pass 60% attenuation which is typically from 1.018-1.025. If it’s a little before that it’s fine.