Using ale yeast cake for a batch of cider?

[CKing]

I have an English brown ale currently fermenting with S-04 at an O.G. of 1.060
I would like to pitch a portion of the yeast cake into a fresh batch of cider same day as the beer is kegged.

Anyone have experience or thoughts if this is a good or bad idea?

 

[fluketamer]

very good idea i did the very same thing last spring and made my best cider yet. only thing is i didnt remove a portion of the cake i just racked apple juice straight onto the cake for my "wham" cider recipe. (i.e. next time you rack to a keg or bottles just pour apple juice directly onto the dregs and 2 weeks later - "wham" - cider. ....i got this recipe from another poster )

 

[Rish]

^^ I've done it this way several times and liked the result.
Remember that you'll get some hoppiness and beer characteristics from the yeast cake, not that this necessarily bad but to make you aware in case you don't want that in your cider. Good luck!

 

[CKing]

^^ I've done it this way several times and liked the result.
Remember that you'll get some hoppiness and beer characteristics from the yeast cake, not that this necessarily bad but to make you aware in case you don't want that in your cider. Good luck!

That's kind of what I'm wanting aside from being able to reuse fresh yeast!

It's been a few years since my last batch, and I have a nice local orchard who makes great fresh pressed cider that is UV treated only so it ferments well.

My plan for now is to ferment 4 gallons of cider with a portion of yeast cake and a little bit of the finished brown ale that gets left behind from racking into a keg. It's typically around 1/4 to 1/2 gallon of beer and cake remaining for my batches.
After fermentation I'll blend into a keg with 1 gallon of fresh cider to back sweeten.

 

[MrFancyPlants]

Yup, should work great. Works great for mead too since the cake doesn’t need the nutrients to multiply. It’ll cut through the simple sugars in relatively shot order.
You don’t want to do it on ipa hops because any bitterness will go out if balance with the low gravity FG if cider real quick.
You have me thinking, next time I do a big batch of cider, maybe I’ll wash the yeast with a small batch of mostly caramel malts, and blend it into the cider while it is in active ferm.. leave some bitterness behind, and pick up some residual sweetness.

 

[JAReeves]

very good idea i did the very same thing last spring and made my best cider yet. only thing is i didnt remove a portion of the cake i just racked apple juice straight onto the cake for my "wham" cider recipe. (i.e. next time you rack to a keg or bottles just pour apple juice directly onto the dregs and 2 weeks later - "wham" - cider. ....i got this recipe from another poster )

I'm going to echo how awesome this method is and how easy it makes your life. The dead yeast are the food for the new batch, and the pitch rate is phenomenal. I plan on kegging my fresh hop ale, dropping a pear cider on top, and then when that is finished, making a mead. As mentioned by another poster, no nutrients needed and the subtle flavors added just go to the complexity of the new batch.

 

[OffbeatBrew]

I just did this with a yeast cake from a previous cider batch (just about had finished primary fermentation with D47). The new batch I poured onto the yeast cake immediately started an active fermentation, while a second new batch that I pitched a new packet of yeast took far longer to become active.
With leftover yeast from beer, the results might be even better because of the superior nutrient profile of beer wort vs apple must, but either way, this method is great.

 

[Chalkyt]

Interesting idea. How would it go using the lees from primary fermentation for a new batch? It always seems a pity to discard the lees. I often use S04 which results in quite compact lees (1/4" or so from a gallon) and it would be easy enough to just pour new juice on top of the lees left in the bottom of the carboy after racking to secondary.

 

[Rish]

new juice on top of the lees

I've done this as well with very good results. Fermentation takes off quickly.

 

[leedspointbrew]

I'm going to echo how awesome this method is and how easy it makes your life. The dead yeast are the food for the new batch, and the pitch rate is phenomenal. I plan on kegging my fresh hop ale, dropping a pear cider on top, and then when that is finished, making a mead. As mentioned by another poster, no nutrients needed and the subtle flavors added just go to the complexity of the new batch.

I might try doing this, with the yeast cake from a pumpkin ale that I have fermenting now, that I'll be bottling in a couple of weeks. But how long would a cider ferment? Is it the same time frame as a beer, ~2 weeks give or take, or longer? I like the idea, but don't want to tie up my fermenter for half the winter.

 

[MrFancyPlants]

Should be pretty quick on the dregs/lees. You can warm it up, too, if in a rush.

 

[OffbeatBrew]

I might try doing this, with the yeast cake from a pumpkin ale that I have fermenting now, that I'll be bottling in a couple of weeks. But how long would a cider ferment? Is it the same time frame as a beer, ~2 weeks give or take, or longer? I like the idea, but don't want to tie up my fermenter for half the winter.

The actual primary fermentation should wrap up in 2 weeks if you have a nice vigorous fermentation, but probably you'll want to let it sit in a secondary or in bottles for weeks to months for the best result (I'm talking about plain, dry cider. If you're back sweetening or adding adjunct flavors, then you may be drinking tasty cider mid Nov.)

 

[leedspointbrew]

The actual primary fermentation should wrap up in 2 weeks if you have a nice vigorous fermentation, but probably you'll want to let it sit in a secondary or in bottles for weeks to months for the best result (I'm talking about plain, dry cider. If you're back sweetening or adding adjunct flavors, then you may be drinking tasty cider mid Nov.)

So if I'm understanding you correctly, adding adjuncts / back-sweetening means that the cider will be ready to drink sooner, rather than later; plain dry cider should just sit in secondary for months to age? T or F?

 

[OffbeatBrew]

So if I'm understanding you correctly, adding adjuncts / back-sweetening means that the cider will be ready to drink sooner, rather than later; plain dry cider should just sit in secondary for months to age? T or F?

That's my experience at least. I will note that if the added adjunct is something you're fermenting out to dryness (another type of juice) then it also may benefit from more time. For instance, I sometimes make a pumpkin spice cider in the fall, and the addition of the spices make it pretty good right away, whereas the base cider might have needed more time to mature and develop the artisan cider taste I'm looking for .

 

[Rish]

ready to drink sooner, rather than later

Since you're doing this on a pumpkin ale yeast cake you may get the advantage of it's flavor getting the cider " better" sooner. My experience is that young cider isn't "bad" but it definitely improves with conditioning which occurs whether in the fv or in the bottle. If I need the fv, I bottle my ciders when they are clear (2-4 weeks) then age in the bottle if needed. Good luck!