Cheesefood said:
This is not unlike someone saying that we should throw away all of our spare change to offset the defecit.
used keg morals
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This is not unlike someone saying that we should throw away all of our spare change to offset the defecit.
Cheesefood said:
LOL. Thank you cheese.
Cheesefood said:
I stand corrected IF that is actually the case. To me it sounds like these breweries pretty much went on their own and created higher deposits. I'm not saying it isn't legal....but I'm curious now.
BTW: I think our wiki spells it out plainly.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Keggle#The_Ethical_Dilemma_of_Keg_Acquisition
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Keggle#The_Ethical_Dilemma_of_Keg_Acquisition
Cheesefood
Well-Known Member
olllllo said:
Gee, didn't the Government do that by creating collectible quarters and dollar-coins the exact shape and size as quarters? Or by issuing bonds, which can be lost or destroyed? The Gov is constantly trying to remove change from circulation as a means of reducing the amount of money being traded.
What I'm saying is that until BMC raises their deposit prices, smaller brewers are forced to keep their deposits at a level that hurts profits significantly. It's the same thing that would happen if a war started and one buyer said "I'll pay $5,000 for every bullet manufactured." Would the opposition be able to afford to be at war?
olllllo said:
"Yeah, well that's just like, your opinion, man."
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Dude said:
Dios mio, man!
olllllo said:Dios mio, man!
8 year olds.
Here's something I wish I'd read on the wiki:
"Cutting the Top
...Lay the keg on its side and use a flat bladed screw driver to depress the ball bearing in the top of the keg valve. If you do this while the keg is upright, you will get sprayed with stale beer..."
I'll attest to that.
krispy d
Well-Known Member
OK just playing devils advocate now.
IMO a deposit is an effort to ENCOURAGE you to return the keg, not enforce you to return it. you pay for the keg and you pay a deposit. untill YOU decide to return the keg it yours to do with as you please. if you sell it to joe for 20 bucks it still is "owned" by the brewery you have just subletted the usage. The brewery has no legal recourse as far I know to come reposess the kegs. so you just "not finnished" using them.
IMO a deposit is an effort to ENCOURAGE you to return the keg, not enforce you to return it. you pay for the keg and you pay a deposit. untill YOU decide to return the keg it yours to do with as you please. if you sell it to joe for 20 bucks it still is "owned" by the brewery you have just subletted the usage. The brewery has no legal recourse as far I know to come reposess the kegs. so you just "not finnished" using them.
krispy d said:
eh.... no.
Not authorized to sub-let.
krispy d
Well-Known Member
come on bird I thought that was a good one...
I obviously don't subscribe to this philosophy, just using for sake of argument.
I obviously don't subscribe to this philosophy, just using for sake of argument.
JohnBarleycorn
Well-Known Member
Im shocked ! The highly ethical corporate institutions in America would never rip Us off !
delboy
Well-Known Member
krispy d said:
I think the legalise in security deposit contracts usually includes the statement in a timely fashion, i don't think that means several eons
the_bird said:
This is only true if bought from the distributor. If they were stolen from a bar as most of us suspect you're still screwing over a local bar ower who is likely a decent guy struggling to make it in the business. I am assuming this because usually huge bars owned by corparations have places to store enough kegs so they won't get stolen.
I think there are two types of folks on this board; The ones that buy or acquire grey market kegs for keggles and those who will bust chops because they can't find any in their area.
Seriously though, it's a mixed bag around here and if you don't have a problem with your conscience, grab your kegs and keep it to yourself.
Seriously though, it's a mixed bag around here and if you don't have a problem with your conscience, grab your kegs and keep it to yourself.
blefferd
Well-Known Member
ive always wondered that, what keeps people from buying a keg paying the deposit drinking all the beer turning the keg into a keggle with all the trimmings and making $200+ profit off of it? is there a way for the brewery to track the kegs once they have been sold to an individual, is there any ill effects of keeping a keg once you have drank all the beer out of it except minus your money?!
Cookiebaggs
Well-Known Member
You had to drink 15.5 gallons of BMC.
delboy
Well-Known Member
Cheesefood said:
Since comments on the probrewer forum seem to hold some weight i thought i would post a link to another thread were a brewer who is at the thin edge of the wedge states what he thinks of non-returnal.
http://probrewer.com/vbulletin/archive/index.php/t-3329.html
about 2/3 down
i'll paraphrase for those that can't be bothered reading through
basically non returnal is theft and these people are pigs, turning a blind eye is just as bad.
delboy
Well-Known Member
Just for a laugh
So someone on craigslist near me is offering up used cars for $2500 each which are worth $7500. Awesome, right? So I e-mailed him and he wrote back with his phone number to call him. I did and he said:
"My son rents cars alot, and then neglects to return the cars, losing his deposit. He's strapped for cash, and I suggested he sell them to earn some money back on them."
So I'm not directly taking the car from the rental firm, some jerk is losing money and I'm gaining.
Should I feel guilt about this? It seems a little fishy, but even more I think it just sounds like they're not so bright (like why not just return the car and get your deposit back....) Right?
I could really use a cheap car for transport though. Thoughts?
Some of the comments so far seem to be
'buy the car, if you don't somebody else will'
'buy it and don't feel guilty espcially if its a big name like Herz, they won't miss the car and anyway they are screwing the small car rental firms, what with their aggresive business policies'
'Don't worry that the car is badged as property of Herz, you have to take people at face value how do you know he doesn't have permission to sell it'
As i say just for a laugh.
So someone on craigslist near me is offering up used cars for $2500 each which are worth $7500. Awesome, right? So I e-mailed him and he wrote back with his phone number to call him. I did and he said:
"My son rents cars alot, and then neglects to return the cars, losing his deposit. He's strapped for cash, and I suggested he sell them to earn some money back on them."
So I'm not directly taking the car from the rental firm, some jerk is losing money and I'm gaining.
Should I feel guilt about this? It seems a little fishy, but even more I think it just sounds like they're not so bright (like why not just return the car and get your deposit back....) Right?
I could really use a cheap car for transport though. Thoughts?
Some of the comments so far seem to be
'buy the car, if you don't somebody else will'
'buy it and don't feel guilty espcially if its a big name like Herz, they won't miss the car and anyway they are screwing the small car rental firms, what with their aggresive business policies'
'Don't worry that the car is badged as property of Herz, you have to take people at face value how do you know he doesn't have permission to sell it'
As i say just for a laugh.
blefferd said:
What keeps people from doing that is the same thing that keeps most people from walking into their neighbors house when they are not home, taking their stuff and selling on eBay! If I need to tell you what that is, then you probably wouldn't believe me anyway.
krispy d
Well-Known Member
delboy said:
here is the post:
Here's where I was going guys;
Since I have had 100% success with the dock sale (retail, walk-in, home draft system) agreement (AGREEMENT not a deposit) to charge $100.00 for a keg not returned within a specified time frame, maybe this is something that needs to be done in the wholesale arena? I think the tap handle situation could/should be similar. The question is, how will the market respond to it? Has anyone else done this yet?
I think the people who think it's fine to steal (yes, I said steal) kegs and handles are pigs. They are the same stock as the folks who think we are all getting rich and deserve to be robbed (corporations are evil-yata-yata). I think the atmosphere has to long been, "Whatever the customer wants". The distributor drivers don't want to lose a tap to anyone and they do whatever it takes to keep it. Including giving away your property. Turning a blind eye to theft is the same thing.
Just as craft brewers have set the standard of beer quality for 25 years now, I wonder if it's time to set the standard in the business of beer as well. Now if we can just get our guilds to consider this, we may just have a discussion started. No one brewery is going to pull this off. We are all going to have to stick together if we want the situation to change. If we don't, then so be it.
MOD EDIT: Took off this poster's identity, since he didn't consent to having his stuff posted here. Doesn't change the substance of what he's saying.
delboy said:
For a laugh my ass. You are comparing apples to oranges with that analogy.
krispy d
Well-Known Member
Dude said:
MMM fruit salad...
And keeps most people from renting copyrighted DVD's and making illegal copies for themselves...johnsma22 said:
Yeah, I need to be drinking right now. Maybe then comparing a registered motor vehicle with an oversized empty beer can would make more sense.Dude said:
I'm simply illustrating another of those "gray" areas. No fingers pointed at anyone specific.johnsma22 said:
I don't have enough fingers....:cross:
I could have used the "driving over 70MPH"....
Or the "deducting my dogs acupuncture as a medical expense on my taxes"...
analogies. No mal intent intended.
poguemahone
Well-Known Member
Odd thread.
You can give example upon example on ways to rationalize this but in the end it is stealing. On what level along the morality scale is really up to each individual - is it as bad as stealing a car or stealing music? That point is moot because the fact remains that the keg is being acquired without full discloser to the owner that they are not getting their property back. A deposit does not equal sale. If that was the case there would be no dilemma.
My point earlier on "if you have to ask then you already know the answer" is still correct in my opinion. The exercise of asking in the first place is simply a way of justifying one's actions. It's rationalization. Whether your rationalization includes "giving it to the man" or "they are rich so they won't miss it" or weird voodoo economics doesn't really matter. It's still all rationalization to excuse one's actions.
And by no means am I throwing a stone. I've stolen before as well.
Oh - and this post is simply a pot stirrer from a noob
I could really care less how you get your gear as long as it's not from my garage.
You can give example upon example on ways to rationalize this but in the end it is stealing. On what level along the morality scale is really up to each individual - is it as bad as stealing a car or stealing music? That point is moot because the fact remains that the keg is being acquired without full discloser to the owner that they are not getting their property back. A deposit does not equal sale. If that was the case there would be no dilemma.
My point earlier on "if you have to ask then you already know the answer" is still correct in my opinion. The exercise of asking in the first place is simply a way of justifying one's actions. It's rationalization. Whether your rationalization includes "giving it to the man" or "they are rich so they won't miss it" or weird voodoo economics doesn't really matter. It's still all rationalization to excuse one's actions.
And by no means am I throwing a stone. I've stolen before as well.
Oh - and this post is simply a pot stirrer from a noob
I could really care less how you get your gear as long as it's not from my garage.
Cheesefood
Well-Known Member
johnsma22 said:
http://homebrewtalk.com/showpost.php?p=277567&postcount=18
No, not at all.
You're simply hypothetically repeating something you accidentally read. We're simply hypothetically stating a way to make a keggle.
As for Mr. We'reAllPigs,
Thanks for going into the brewing business to provide beer for what it costs you to produce it. I'm sure that you're not making any profit at all, nor are you ever perusing recipes people have publically posted.
Perhaps you should stick to bottles only, or put RFID tracking devices on them.
As for the Kegs-to-Cars comparison: you made yourself look dumb by asking it. According to your comparison, letting my friends come over and help themselves to a beer is like letting them help themselves to my car.
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