Use fermenter as keg: possible?

[wsmith1625]

For all the effort, why not just bottle?

 

[Anti-Hoppist]

For all the effort, why not just bottle?

Again, this takes Just the same effort of opening and closing a drawer

 

[mac_1103]

What does your FV have in the way of ports? Maybe post a picture of it?

 

[Broken Crow]

I'm pretty much stubborn about not using force-injected CO2.

Why?

 

[Cider Wraith]

For anyone that gets their water from a well on their property you're aware that you have a bladder diaphragm based pressure tank. Ever see plants being watered at a building supply store with a pressure tank on a rolling cart? Don't they sell food grade bladders that can go inside kegs and force the liquid out under constriction?

 

[Cider Wraith]

I guess if the OP switches to keg fermenters then he has a useless dedicated FV?

 

[mac_1103]

I guess if the OP switches to keg fermenters then he has a useless dedicated FV?

No, he has a useless fermenter if he dedicates it to serving his beer until it's empty. If he kegs he gets to brew again and never run out of beer!

 

[day_trippr]

Don't they sell food grade bladders that can go inside kegs and force the liquid out under constriction?

I have never read of a bladder that would fit a conventional cornelius style keg. Fitting one to the keg dip tubes would likely be an interesting challenge - but not insurmountable I believe.

There have been some purpose-built "kegs" using replaceable bladders over the years. One was marketed under the Heineken brand for a time. And Kegland had their design. Don't know if any of that style keg are still manufactured.

Cheers!

 

[Cider Wraith]

Many people enjoy a hint of residual sweetness in cider ... and so ... after having pressure fermented to about 16 PSI, when fermentation in FV has about 1/5 left to go, transfer to server, refrigerate and serve. You'll get ample alcohol, you'll get fruit flavor and residual sweetness because all sugars aren't consumed, refrigeration will slow down fermentation but not stop it, so it will continue to slowly carbonate and serve itself. Guess would be this work for ciders but wouldn't be appropriate for beer, though.

 

[mac_1103]

Are you sure that only works for cider? Because it sounds a lot like spunding.

 

[Cider Wraith]

I've heard two different definitions for the use of pressure valves, first ordinary pressure fermenting as a flavor modulater, second "spunding" referring to self carbonation - possibly only applied at close to the end of fermentation. I use "pressure fermenting" to refer to everything.

My guess as to why refrigerating and serving a not-fully-fermented product wouldn't work for beer is that you beer drinkers might not like that much variation in your end products, but ciders can probably happily tolerate a wider range of variables

 

[moreb33rplz]

If minimal effort is the goal (and a worthy one which I fully support), imo the move is to ferment and serve in the same keg, and hook it up to gas after fermentation is complete

I'm biased tho cuz that's what I do, but after 18 years of brewing I've found it to be the easiest way, for me, to still produce top notch b33rz

Flat beer sucks. Unless you bottle or use store bought CO2 yer gonna have flat beer. Gross

 

[mac_1103]

Flat beer sucks. Unless you bottle or use store bought CO2 yer gonna have flat beer.

Well, you can spund or prime in the keg so you only need store bought CO2 for serving.

So then, to sum up...

Use fermenter as keg: possible? Yes.
Use keg as fermenter: better? Absolutely.

 

[TomSellers]

I'm pretty much stubborn about not using force-injected CO2.

If you need to create some pressure in a tank with air, a pressurized portable air tank can be converted with a ball lock on it as so:

Or, a bicycle pump can be converted by putting a ball lock on it:

 

[Anti-Hoppist]

So in these days I learnt a lot of things and words, help me clarify.

I can keg, prime with sugar, and (resign to) use a minimum amount of store bought CO2 to keep the beer carbonated. Is this achieved through a spunding valve? That acts like a breather for a cask?
You probably already told me this, but consider that I didn't know what a spunding valve was until yesterday.

 

[mac_1103]

So in these days I learnt a lot of things and words, help me clarify.

I can keg, prime with sugar, and (resign to) use a minimum amount of store bought CO2 to keep the beer carbonated. Is this achieved through a spunding valve?

I think priming in a keg should be achievable even without a spunding valve. But there are plenty of folks around here who have much more experience with this than I do.

Search the forums for those key words. You'll learn even more things and words, and might find that it's already been clarified.

 

[Anti-Hoppist]

I think priming in a keg should be achievable even without a spunding valve. But there are plenty of folks around here who have much more experience with this than I do.

Search the forums for those key words. You'll learn even more things and words, and might find that it's already been clarified.

No I mean, the constant CO2 level Is done with a spunding valve? Or maybe I should get a LPG regulator for that

 

[shoengine]

So in these days I learnt a lot of things and words, help me clarify.

I can keg, prime with sugar, and (resign to) use a minimum amount of store bought CO2 to keep the beer carbonated. Is this achieved through a spunding valve? That acts like a breather for a cask?
You probably already told me this, but consider that I didn't know what a spunding valve was until yesterday.

A spunding valve is for spunding. It's like a pressure release valve that you can dial in a specific pressure to release, whereas PRVs are specific safety devices based on the vessel they are attached to.

Because I am sure someone will bring it up, a spunding valve IS NOT a safety device and you still need a PRV on pressure vessels.

 

[shoengine]

No I mean, the constant CO2 level Is done with a spunding valve? Or maybe I should get a LPG regulator for that

If you are using a CO2 tank, you'd use a regulator that is set to a specific pressure, so you don't try to push 600 PSI from your tank.

 

[mac_1103]

No I mean, the constant CO2 level Is done with a spunding valve?

Like the man said, a spunding valve is for spunding. It let's you set a maximum pressure level in the vessel during fermentation.

I just meant to say that priming in a keg and spunding aren't necessarily the same thing. Priming in the keg is just like bottling in a very big bottle. You wait until final gravity is reached and then add enough sugar to produce the desired level of carbonation.

 

[Anti-Hoppist]

Like the man said, a spunding valve is for spunding
I just meant to say that priming in a keg and spunding aren't necessarily the same thing. Priming in the keg is just like bottling in a very big bottle. You wait until final gravity is reached and then add enough sugar to produce the desired level of carbonation.

Yes, I misinterpreted what a spunding valve is

 

[day_trippr]

Or maybe I should get a LPG regulator for that

An LPG regulator is indeed an appropriate mechanism for a "nearly" cask ale dispensing system as its nominal 0.4 psi is enough to help motivate beer out of the keg without introducing oxygen into the keg or providing much in the way of carbonation, and is waay more reliable than trying to use a conventional adjustable regulator to do the job.

I use LPG regulators in series with a primary CO2 regulator to reliably prevent cold-crash "suck-back" in my fermentors for the same reason...

Cheers!

 

[Anti-Hoppist]

Since we're here, tell me something.

I also considered gravity dispensing from the keg, but looking up online everyone says It's not possible due to the air/CO2 that should get in to let the beer out etc. and that's ok if we talk about the keg put on his side to emulate a cask.

But since corny kegs' tubes are removable and they can be stored upside down, will gravity fail if one removes the internal tubes and lets the beer drop Just by true and pure gravity?

 

[wsmith1625]

Since we're here, tell me something.

I also considered gravity dispensing from the keg, but looking up online everyone says It's not possible due to the air/CO2 that should get in to let the beer out etc. and that's ok if we talk about the keg put on his side to emulate a cask.

But since corny kegs' tubes are removable and they can be stored upside down, will gravity fail if one removes the internal tubes and lets the beer drop Just by true and pure gravity?

I don't see that working at all. As the beer leaves the keg, it will need to be replaced by air or co2, but there won't be any way for it to enter the keg. Either the beer won't flow or it will slowly glug out as air tries to enter the faucet while you pour the beer.

 

[Anti-Hoppist]

I don't see that working at all. As the beer leaves the keg, it will need to be replaced by air or co2, but there won't be any way for it to enter the keg. Either the beer won't flow or it will slowly glug out the faucet as air tries to enter as the liquid tries to escape.

But why? Mini-kegs don't use (as far as I know) nothing more then a spigot, and things fall down everyday everywhere...

 

[mac_1103]

Mini-kegs don't use (as far as I know) nothing more then a spigot, and things fall down everyday everywhere...

What mini-kegs are you talking about? Mine use CO2, as do all the one's I've seen.

 

[Anti-Hoppist]

What mini-kegs are you talking about? Mine use CO2, as do all the one's I've seen.

The tin ones, party-kegs. Do they use CO2?

 

[kgranger]

The tin ones, party-kegs. Do they use CO2?

I think you're referring to these? Mini Keg

They use a vent bung that you pull out slightly before serving. Similarly to a cask, you would need to finish it within a few days to keep the freshness.

 

[mac_1103]

They use a vent bung that you pull out slightly before serving.

IOW, you have to let air in. BTW, those can also use CO2 cartridges with the right adapter.

 

[dtashmore547]

my 2 penneth worth, I transfer my ale under pressure from my fermenter to a pet keg and serve from that at the required pressure no co2 needed, I do use a co2 bottle to keep pressure up later in the consumption but you could, if you consume quickly enough attach a second ferment via a splitter connection and spunding valve to add co2 to the brew if your timing it's good enough.