Us05 tasting seriously Belgian-y

[sudsmcgee]

If you don't think O2 is necessary for healthy yeast cell reproduction, than I don't know what to tell you...****************. Even the trusted dry yeast manufacturer "source" clearly states this.

I didn't deny that it is necessary for optimum yeast cell production. I said it's not necessary when using dry yeast (because the cell count is so high when properly pitched that the yeast don't need to reproduce much, and what they need to reproduce they already have).

*************************************

 

[fuhmon]

+1 That was poor, uninformed advice.

Always aerate your wort, whether using dry or liquid yeast. It can't hurt and can only help

seriously i've listened to countless talks with Chris White, John Palmer and Jamil Zainasheff them talking specifically about yeast requiring oxygen in wort

 

[Reno_eNVy]

I didn't deny that it is necessary for optimum yeast cell production. I said it's not necessary when using dry yeast (because the cell count is so high when properly pitched that the yeast don't need to reproduce much, and what they need to reproduce they already have)

************ Yes, dry yeast comes packaged with certain compounds to aid reproduction... but that's just to get it STARTED! They most certainly need to reproduce as much. A proper pitching amount of dry yeast as calculated by Mr. Malty has the same about of viable yeast cells as a proper sized starter. Reproduction occurs at the same rate in both until the yeast reach their optimal concentration. Pretty sure it's a couple billion cells per milliliter. A dry yeast pack will have something like

However, as you saw in on of my previous posts, every generation uses up those fatty acid reserves and they won't make any more if there is little or no O2 available.

*******************************************************

 

[BierMuncher]

Off topic banter removed. Keep it on topic and keep the discussion in technical forums civil.

 

[sudsmcgee]

*sigh* Yes, dry yeast comes packaged with certain compounds to aid reproduction... but that's just to get it STARTED! They most certainly need to reproduce as much. A proper pitching amount of dry yeast as calculated by Mr. Malty has the same about of viable yeast cells as a proper sized starter. Reproduction occurs at the same rate in both until the yeast reach their optimal concentration. Pretty sure it's a couple billion cells per milliliter. A dry yeast pack will have something like

However, as you saw in on of my previous posts, every generation uses up those fatty acid reserves and they won't make any more if there is little or no O2 available.

I don't deny yeast need oxygen. I said you don't need to oxygenate when pitching a dry yeast pack. This is a different statement. The wort will contain adequate oxygen to allow a dry yeast to adequately reproduce and ferment simply from the wort transfer from the boil kettle to the fermenter as long as you're not racking it gently. The fact that people have pitched dry yeast packs and the wort turns into good beer is proof of this.

Now, if you want to argue that oxygenation will enhance attentuation somewhat, well I won't argue that because I agree. My point is that wort will turn into beer whether you oxygenate or not when pitching dry yeast. Remember, I also said that I aerate anyway because it's easy to do and it takes like 30 seconds for me so why not.

 

[RichBenn]

The wort will contain adequate oxygen to allow a dry yeast to adequately reproduce and ferment simply from the wort transfer from the boil kettle to the fermenter as long as you're not racking it gently. .

OK, splashing the wort when racking IS oxygenating. My only bad experiences with dry yeast have been when I racked into a carboy with the destination hose at the bottom of the carboy. No splashing. Probably sprinkled yeast. Pathetic or non-existent start. Creaming helps, so does oxygenation,

So the takeaway, assuming a fresh pack of dry yeast and no other lurking variables:

1. On lower gravity beers, you can probably get by with one of:
A. Creaming before pitching, or
B. Oxygenating the wort reasonably well.

2. On higher gravity beers, either:
A. Cream and oxygenate, or
B. Do one or the other and use two packs.

But isn't it easier to do both every time? It's been bombproof for me.

Getting back to the point of this thread, it sounds like the original poster is gonna have success! Hurrah!

 

[Reno_eNVy]

OK, splashing the wort when racking IS oxygenating.

This

 

[scottland]

US-05 is basically my house yeast. I use it for almost anything I can.

A. Use enough. 1 pack is good for 1.060 or less. Once I get over 1.070-1.075 I'll use two packs.

B. Re-hydrate it. It's so simple, there's really no excuse not to.

C. I typically ferment it on the low side, 62-65. I'll raise the temp to 68-70 once i'm withing 5pts of final gravity. I've fermented it up to 70 without it getting too fruity. (these are wort temps, not ambient or water bath temps).

D. It clears fantastically after a couple weeks

E. I only oxygenate by splashing the wort when racking to the primary. I always get great attenuation, and no off flavors from US-05. Anytime I'm brewing with that red packet, I feel like it's going to be a great beer.

 

[tesilential]

Calm down people. For a wort of 1.05 or less you don't need to aerate using dry yeast. If you have a higher OG you could simply pitch 2 packs and still not aerate.

Lol racking is NOT proper aerating. You are vastly under aerating if you just splash the wort. If you want to aerate, you need to shake the carboy nonstop for 5 minutes.

When I use dry yeast I just rehydrate and pour into the wort. I shake for a couple seconds just to mix in the yeast. I get clean beer (with US05) and low FG (1.008, down from 1.06).

No harm in oxygenating, but it's not required for dry yeast.

 

[sudsmcgee]

This

..was my point all along. No additional attempts at oxygenation are necesary beyond normal tranfer of the wort to the fermenter.

 

[suprchunk]

seriously i've listened to countless talks with Chris White, John Palmer and Jamil Zainasheff them talking specifically about yeast requiring oxygen in wort

I just listened to a podcast, old Q&A show, today where they said you don't need to oxygenate when using dry yeast. Well, Chris White wasn't there. But Jamil and John both said no need.