Unhoppy IIPA

[davel57]

I'm pretty new at this. I just bottled my first IIPA, and the bitterness seems way less than expected and I'm trying to figure out what went wrong. The calculations say 77 bitterness which seems like plenty.

2 GALLON BATCH, QBrew says SG 1.077, Bitterness 77, color 17

3.3 lb - Briess LME Golden Light
1.0 lb - Crystal 20L
.25 bl - Crystal 80L
1 oz - Carafa III

0.5 oz - Columbus (14.4%) - 60 min.
0.25 Citra (12.3) - 20 min
0.5 Citra - 0 min at flameout, after LME
0.5 Citra Dry Hop - Add at 7 days, remove at 14

WLP007 yeast

Grains were steeped until shortly before boil
Half of LME added at start of boil, half at flameout

Hops boiled in muslin bag, bag left in fermenter 1st 7 days. At that point, beer tasted of hops, though not super bitter. Added dry hops, after 7 more days, beer tasted heavily of grapefruit but lacking any other hop flavor or bitterness. I won't know the final result for a few weeks.

One possible problem - Boil was really just barely a simmer for much of the time. Would that make a big difference? I mean we're only talking the difference between 211 and 212 degrees, right? Also, should I give up on the hop sack and just put the hops in directly?

 

[Double_D]

The boil/not boiling is a huge thing. Water boils at 212 at sea level. For every 1000 feet above it reduces by one degree. When you boil hops the oils go through a process called isomerization. It's where the hop oils actually become part of the wort. That's why you have specific times and different hop additions. The ones you boil for bitterness isomerize the alpha acids but drive off the less robust beta acids. You add other hops at the end of the boil to keep the hop flavor, but since they don't spend that much time in the boil their bitterness isn't used, just flavor/aroma. A simmer is in the 160 degree range.

 

[A4J]

Also, should I give up on the hop sack and just put the hops in directly?

The hop sack makes no difference with regards to bitterness.

 

[dcp27]

I think the huge amount of crystal malt is partly to blame. its over the recommended 20% max for any beer, and thats waaaaaaaaay too much for a IIPA

also, if your hop bag is bound tightly, it can inhibit isomerization

 

[Double_D]

Efficiency is based on total specific gravity, not the grain bill. This pale ale will probably have a good malt/hop balance.

 

[davel57]

I was afraid it was the boil. Actually that's good because it's easy to fix. In fact, the Red I just brewed was at full boil the whole time, so it should come out as expected in terms of hoppiness.

As for the crystal malt, I see numbers all over the map for appropriate amounts. I know that the amount I added was high for the style, I just wanted to find out what a more malty IPA would be like. Unfortunately I think it's going to end up more like a strong blond with grapefruit scent.

Hardest thing about brewing so far is that it takes so long before you find out you made a mistake (or not).

 

[Double_D]

Nah, I use lots of crystal in my grain bills, but from a range of colors (20, 40, 120 whatever..) and throw some rye in my IPA's too a malty IPA has a fullness that compliments all that hops better than you think.

 

[dcp27]

Nah, I use lots of crystal in my grain bills, but from a range of colors (20, 40, 120 whatever..) and throw some rye in my IPA's too a malty IPA has a fullness that compliments all that hops better than you think.

ok, but would you use >3lbs in one? cuz thats what this equates to in a normal 5 gal batch. I have no objections to a malty IPA, they're what I prefer, but this was just too much and all that sweetness is going to mask the bitterness.

what did the FG end up being on this?

 

[Double_D]

I use about 40# total with 25% character malt.
Generally:
2# crystal 40
2# honey malt
1# crystal 80
1# rye
1# dextrine
I don't have my notes in front of me (i'm killing time at work right now) but if you're interested I can post some of my IPA recipes and you can make your adjustments(if you want) from there.

 

[mhenry41h]

To me, a 1 to 1 bitterness to gravity ratio is too low to begin with when brewing a big IIPA. I'd rather have the ratio closer to 1.100 to 1.150.

One brew at a time...

 

[Double_D]

To me, a 1 to 1 bitterness to gravity ratio is too low to begin with when brewing a big IIPA. I'd rather have the ratio closer to 1.100 to 1.150.

One brew at a time...

Are you talking beginning s.g. or finished s.g.?

so your ratio looks like this:
bitterness desired in IBU = beginning/ finished s.g * 1.100*1.150?

 

[Yooper]

I think the huge amount of crystal malt is partly to blame. its over the recommended 20% max for any beer, and thats waaaaaaaaay too much for a IIPA

also, if your hop bag is bound tightly, it can inhibit isomerization

I agree with this. It's got way too much crystal, which means the balance of the beer is skewed towards sweet, and even 77 IBUs won't balance that to bitter.

Also, a hops sack certainly CAN impact bitterness. If you use a bag, make sure the hops are "loose" in there and able to move freely.

 

[dcp27]

Are you talking beginning s.g. or finished s.g.?

so your ratio looks like this:
bitterness desired in IBU = beginning/ finished s.g * 1.100*1.150?

he prolly meant bugu, which is based on OG. its a good starting place, but fg plays almost as big a role as OG in your balance so its pretty incomplete.

 

[mhenry41h]

Are you talking beginning s.g. or finished s.g.?

so your ratio looks like this:
bitterness desired in IBU = beginning/ finished s.g * 1.100*1.150?

If you use the Beersmith software it will calculate it for you. Basically, if your starting post boil gravity is 1.070 then 70 IBU's would be be an SG to IBU ratio of 1. I think 1 is a nice place for an IPA. I'd go a little stronger for an IIPA. It is true that your final gravity also would influence the balance. Just my take, Lord knows I'm no pro!

One brew at a time...

 

[Double_D]

Sooo....why not just use the AHA guidelines? Takes less math, you know what's the acceptable range for the beer style, and no guess work.