Understanding water

[Jh4rtm4n]

Hello all,

I'm a very green new guy. So don't be too harsh with my ignorance.

How do certain water characteristics effect the taste of beer? I'm trying to understand what kind of beers will be good to brew based on my water. I have bought a simple test kit from a local hardware store. Is this a trusted way to test water? Or is ward labs the "only" way to go for accurate readings?

I'm wanting to use this hidden spring from an old homestead that i found on my farm, it bubbles out of the ground with an old stone fencing / retaining wall built around it. It is full of sand currently, i plan on digging a little out to see if it improves flow, and gets it back above ground. I'll have to post some pictures of the spring. Its really cool to see.

 

[mongoose33]

At the beginning of the Brew Science forum (the one you're in right now) is a sticky on Water. That's probably where you should start.

Water does impact beer, and it's not possible to say in a few words all the ways it can do that. It depends on whether you're doing an all-grain mash or using extract; it depends on the mineral content of the water, does it have something like chlorine or chloramine in it to control nasties (your spring water won't), does it have in it what you want to make it all work well? And yes, it can and will affect taste, both in how it influences the mash, and direct taste factors.

One problem w/ spring water is that its composition may change as the year goes on; during a wet time it may be essentially producing rain runoff, at other times, maybe other stuff. Are there agricultural concerns nearby? Might there be fertilizers, pesticides, etc. in that water? Might that change depending on whether it's spring (when they're applied) versus fall or winter?

So--start w/ the sticky. If you want to get deep into it, read the threads here on it--many start w/ a water report from Wards lab, and ask for advice on what to do.

Or, if you really want to get into it, get the book Water.

 

[JonM]

One of the best ways to find out what's in your water is to look up the water utility's website. They usually have a water report that will spell out what they've found through their testing. It'll tell you way more than you need to know (it'll tell you detected amounts of just about everything) but you really just want to know calcium, sodium, magnesium, chloride, sulfate, and hardness. (Sure, the figures from the water utility are averages and not specifically what's in a particular glass of water, but it's a good place to start.)

Really though, a good place to start is the Brewing Water Chemistry primer here on HBT and start with RO water. You can get it from the grocery store for about 30 cents/gallon.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=198460

If there is chlorine/chloramine, you can neutralize it easily with Campden. (Chlorine will create a nasty taste if it interacts with grain.)

And another vote for reading Palmer's "Water."

 

[mongoose33]

Jon, he wants to use spring water. I'm not sure a city report will help him much.

 

[Jh4rtm4n]

Thank you for the replies. I did some searches in the forum, but did not find what i was looking for. Reverse osmosis water for .30 cents a gallon? Where? All im able to find is spring, municipal, and purified water at my local grocer.

 

[jmill]

I have done both a home supply store test kit and the Ward Labs test from my municipal source. They differed a bit...almost 2 points on ph alone. I have no idea how long the home test kit was sitting on the shelf, so that could make a difference.

I often supplement my filtered water supply with 5 gal jugs of RO water from the grocery store. I use a water calculator like EZ water to determine which additives to use and the proper proportions of RO to filtered water.

 

[Jh4rtm4n]

I will try to do more research in the topic, thank you for the replies.

Quick question. Is RO the same as distilled water?

 

[JosephN]

^^^ no they are different. Distilled has no minerals while RO has some.

If you really want to know what is in your spring water I would strongly suggest getting it sent off to ward for a full on test. Not just a simple brewing water test. I say this because there maybe chemicals in it that are very harmful to you depending on many factors. The odds are that it's safe but it would be great to know for sure.

Also if you want to know about water, we'll just keep studying a little at a time and one day I'm sure it will click. It did for me. Once it does click, just keep it simple and don't over think it and you'll make great beer

 

[ajdelange]

Also if you want to know about water, we'll just keep studying a little at a time and one day I'm sure it will click. It did for me. Once it does click, just keep it simple and don't over think it and you'll make great beer

I am delighted to hear that it eventually 'clicked' for you. As my real goal here is to get it to click for more people I wonder if you could expand a little on what made it click for you.

Thanks.

 

[JosephN]

It's too much to explain in a forum without writing a mini book. Here is the video I had to stop and pause several times to get it. There are parts that I didn't care about, but for my water it comes down to the chloride/sulfate ratio, residual alkalinity and my pH. If I have that all in check then I'll turn my 80% beer into 95%.

[ame]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zJj__jEkFUE[/ame]

 

[ajdelange]

I wasn't asking you to help me get it. I think I've got it. Several of the charts in the video you linked to came from me. What I wanted to know was what helped you to get it and I assume the answer is at least in part this video. This video, however, doesn't accurately reflect current thinking on the nature of what it is. Of the three concepts you mention, RA, Cl to SO4 ratio and mash pH only mash pH is really a "pillar" of brewing/water science.

But thanks for the response any way. I am still looking for a way to explain it to people without several semesters of chemistry under their belts and really haven't had much luck.

 

[The_Bishop]

I only watched a small portion of that video but in that small portion I saw a lot of outdated/debunked info. First thing that jumped out was the Sulfate/Chloride ratio stuff, followed by the calcium requirements, and saying soft water is nearly like distilled... Not true at all.

It's an older video and a good portion of the info in it has been changed/superseded.