Understanding 60 minute boil time

[brewnewbie12]

I know I should already have this down but I think this is why all three of my brews have not come out very good, bad actually. My kit instructions say to add :

1/4 oz hops @45 minutes
1/4 oz hops @20 minutes
1/4 oz hops @10 minutes
1/4 oz hops @ 5 minutes

then boil for the final 5 minutes.

So do I set my timer to 60 minutes and then when it hits 45 add bittering hops and boil till 20 minutes then add another @ 10 minutes then add another @ 5 minutes then boil for another 5 then cool?

I have been boiling the first 1/4 oz for 45 minutes and then another 1/4 oz for 20 minutes 10 minutes, 5 minutes so on and so forth

I guessing Ive been doing it wrong the whole time that's why they haven't been turning out well.

(It says 60 minute boil process. Timing is referred to by minutes left in the boil). So 60 minutes after ive added dry malt, liquid malt and it reaches boiling temp (212)?

 

[FirstAidBrewing]

For a 60 minute boil. Start your timer at 60 and count down. At 45, add your first hops. At 20 (ie 25 minutes later) add your next hops, then at ten and five. Let it ride for 5 minutes and then flame out.

The way you were doing it, you were coming out to an 80 minute boil, so yeah I expect your flavors were thrown off as a result.


I get past the hot break, then start my timer.

 

[brewnewbie12]

Damn it I figured I was doing it wrong I didn't realize it till after I starting doing it today and then it was too late. Thank you for helping me maybe I can get the forth one right.

 

[FirstAidBrewing]

No worries! Brew on!

 

[CJ-3]

The longer boils will give you more hop utilization so more than likely more bitter than the original plan.

The good news is there is a hop head out there that will love it!

 

[wyccad915]

It is a little weird the way it is written but proper research explains the process pretty good. Its good you understand it now, though.

 

[Brew_Meister_General]

I know I should already have this down but I think this is why all three of my brews have not come out very good, bad actually. My kit instructions say to add :

1/4 oz hops @45 minutes
1/4 oz hops @20 minutes
1/4 oz hops @10 minutes
1/4 oz hops @ 5 minutes

I firstly apologise in advanced for reiterating all the stuff you probably already know.

One thing I would advocate is timing the hour once the hot break (the brown foamy head on top of the wort) has risen and settled back into the wort. This is said to usually take about 20 minutes. After that, I would add your first hops and time the hour. The additional boiling would also be beneficial.

A 60 minute is termed as a 'sufficient' boil whereas beers were traditionally boiled for 90 minutes as this promoted things like stability and clarity by causing more of the proteins to flocculate. You might argue that you would end up boiling off too much water but I make up for by adding ice that I've previously prepared in a sealed container with a touch of campden. When using lager/pilsner malt a 90 minute boil is actually essential for driving off DMS.

The only other possibility is whether it is a vigorous boil at 100c/212c or a weak boil as this would have some repercussions in terms of proteins, DMS and probably sanitation.

 

[brewnewbie12]

I think that some of my issues are the boiling. I have a flat stove top that hates 3 gallon boils and takes forever to get to 212 but eventually gets there. Thanks for the help guys now I know where my issues are that I need to correct.

 

[unionrdr]

I think that some of my issues are the boiling. I have a flat stove top that hates 3 gallon boils and takes forever to get to 212 but eventually gets there. Thanks for the help guys now I know where my issues are that I need to correct.

I found out from having to replace our old stove- that I installed aftermarket replacement elements on- that the over-all wattage rating of these modern smooth top induction stoves makes a lot of difference. we got a Frigidaire Induction smooth top with convection capability oven that's rated @ 3,600 watts. It heats a 3.5 gallon boil in no time at all. So your's may likely have a lower wattage rating?

 

[Bobby_M]

Recipes are typically written as T minus time. A 60 minute addition is T-60. There is added confusion when authors write books that flip flop those directions such as in the book Clone Brews

 

[tgolanos]

I found out from having to replace our old stove- that I installed aftermarket replacement elements on- that the over-all wattage rating of these modern smooth top induction stoves makes a lot of difference. we got a Frigidaire Induction smooth top with convection capability oven that's rated @ 3,600 watts. It heats a 3.5 gallon boil in no time at all. So your's may likely have a lower wattage rating?

There's a big difference between the various flat-tops out there these days. I had a ceramic flat-top (not induction) at my last home that couldn't handle the weight of 12L of water. It would trigger the auto shut-off. Higher end induction and ceramic flat-tops may be able to handle the weight but not in my experience.

 

[unionrdr]

Ours has been no problem so far. always doing larger kettles of something or other. But I agree, the old ceramic smooth top we had at the last house wasn't that great on the stove top. But the oven was spot on?

 

[slym2none]

When using lager/pilsner malt a 90 minute boil is actually essential for driving off DMS.

The Brulosopher might disagree with you on that.

 

[MFWINZLOW]

I have a middle-of-the road Kenmore ceramic cooktop that has no problems with 8 gallons boiling...

 

[Rhumbline]

I have to admit that this was the single most confusing thing to me when I started brewing.

I thought exactly as you did, then I did the math and wondered why they were talking about a 60 boil when it seemed they were calling for 80 minutes. It took a lot of head scratching before it sunk in.

 

[wallybangbang]

+1 to what the others have said about your hop addition times. You never actually said what was bad about your beer though, could be something else in the process. Is it overly bitter? That might have to do with the hops. Let us know what kind of off flavors you are getting and that will let the folks on here help you out.

 

[brewnewbie12]

Interesting ours is only a 2 year old Samsung. Yesterday I had to sit my 5 gallon pot over two of the burners to help it heat up quicker. The burners also turn on then turn off after a minute or so and then back on, really sucks. I have been doing some reading on how to help my boiling situation and I'm wondering if it is possible to add a water heater element to my 5 gallon pot?

Possibly something like this http://www.homedepot.com/p/Camco-200...5120/204219916 just to help the process while on the stove top?

Again thank for all of the input guys helps out a lot.

 

[brewnewbie12]

I have to admit that this was the single most confusing thing to me when I started brewing.

I thought exactly as you did, then I did the math and wondered why they were talking about a 60 boil when it seemed they were calling for 80 minutes. It took a lot of head scratching before it sunk in.

That's exactly what happened yesterday. I read it twice and started to think about it and then it clicked that I have been doing it wrong the whole time. But it was to late to change it up.

 

[Rhumbline]

I've heard others say that the newer flat tops a have circuitry to shut off the burner to prevent the glass from getting too hot, that might be what you're running into.

The water heater should help. If you've got the space, you might pick up a simple electric hot plate to use.

 

[brewnewbie12]

+1 to what the others have said about your hop addition times. You never actually said what was bad about your beer though, could be something else in the process. Is it overly bitter? That might have to do with the hops. Let us know what kind of off flavors you are getting and that will let the folks on here help you out.

Well the first two were really bitter which now I see why, I was doing the hop additions all wrong.

They both tasted like I poured a bottle of vodka in the fermenter before I bottled it. I'm assuming that happened because the temp was way to high while fermenting, both were around 75 to 80 deg. So now with this batch I'm using a chest freezer with a single stage Johnson temp controller and a heating pad to keep the fermenter in the 65 degree range. So far so good.

I was also pitching the yeast above 70+ on the first two batches which I think didn't help with all of the off flavors. My assumptions could be wrong though on all of it. I'm doing the trial and error method to try and improve on all of it.

 

[unionrdr]

you're not wrong. High initial fermentation temps are bad, & cause off flavors. But, they now say high pitch temps are where off flavors start. How soon you correct it makes all the difference.

 

[wallybangbang]

Well the first two were really bitter which now I see why, I was doing the hop additions all wrong.

They both tasted like I poured a bottle of vodka in the fermenter before I bottled it. I'm assuming that happened because the temp was way to high while fermenting, both were around 75 to 80 deg. So now with this batch I'm using a chest freezer with a single stage Johnson temp controller and a heating pad to keep the fermenter in the 65 degree range. So far so good.

I was also pitching the yeast above 70+ on the first two batches which I think didn't help with all of the off flavors. My assumptions could be wrong though on all of it. I'm doing the trial and error method to try and improve on all of it.

Your beer will be much better after correcting the fermentation and pitching temps. You assumptions are spot on.

 

[Brew_Meister_General]

They both tasted like I poured a bottle of vodka in the fermenter before I bottled it. I'm assuming that happened because the temp was way to high while fermenting, both were around 75 to 80 deg. So now with this batch I'm using a chest freezer with a single stage Johnson temp controller and a heating pad to keep the fermenter in the 65 degree range. So far so good.

It sounds like what happened was a cross between the yeast consuming most of the sugars and producing high amounts of alcohol and an increased production of fusel alcohols which would of created that harsh, solvent-like taste, also due to the high temperature.

On the upside yeast are known to consume fusel alcohols and turn them into fruity esters so with a degree of ageing, a month say, the beer will become noticeably more drinkable (and continue to improve with age if its a darker beer).

Alternative you could just add something sweet and flavoursome to it before drinking.

 

[brewnewbie12]

I didn't know that I could have let it sit awhile and it would have been more drinkable I poured all five gallons worth in the sink. Now I know to just let it sit a bit and then see what happens, I guess I was too impatient.

So when you say the yeast are know to consume fusel alcohols with a degree of ageing, do you mean leaving it in the fermenter for a longer period of time or do you mean letting it bottle condition longer.

 

[unionrdr]

Both in my experience.

 

[Brew_Meister_General]

I didn't know that I could have let it sit awhile and it would have been more drinkable I poured all five gallons worth in the sink. Now I know to just let it sit a bit and then see what happens, I guess I was too impatient.

So when you say the yeast are know to consume fusel alcohols with a degree of ageing, do you mean leaving it in the fermenter for a longer period of time or do you mean letting it bottle condition longer.

As in letting it bottle condition as the beer is still conditioning whether its in bulk or in bottles, it just frees up your fermenter to start brewing again.

Bottling also has the added benefit of conditioning the beer at 12c which is meant to be the ideal temperature for minimising unwanted reactions that would spoil your beer over time. This would only be after the beer has carbonated following the initial 3 weeks at room temperature.

The solvent-taste you had is actually characteristic of brewing high gravity beers such as imperial stouts (8%+) which taste 'hot' at first but then after a few months of ageing (in bottles or barrels) this dissipates and its overall profile evolves due to various flavour compounds reacting with one another. Of course these beers usually have a high FG (18-24) to accommodate the alcohol content.

 

[unionrdr]

To be more precise as to my own experiences, I give them, on average, 3-7 days more after FG is reached to clean up these by-products of fermentation & settle out clear or slightly misty, then bottle. They tend to clean up some more while carbonating & conditioning @ 70F or more. The a week to 10 days fridge time seems to help even more in settling out the trub & yeast that seem to keep these absorbed off flavors in suspension.
Case in point; My Hellfire IIPA. It had a bang-aid sort of flavor from me going cheap on the yeast. Took too long to ferment out the last couple points. But by 10-12 days fridge time, it's gone & the beer tastes good. Not as good as it would've been had it fermented out a couple weeks sooner, but still pretty good. Even my son, who had the original idea, loved it & posted on my Facebook page about it. It did kinda bug me that he likes it with the trub stirred up, as in the pic he posted. I think it tastes better clear...

 

[brewnewbie12]

So unionrdr you let the primary go for almost a week longer after FG is reached. I have been moving mine over to a glass carboy after FG has been reached. Could that be why I'm getting off flavors too. On this batch I'm adding a flavoring to it so would it be advisable to just leave it in the primary for the full two to three weeks with the flavor addition, instead of moving it into a secondary fermenter?

 

[Dirt_McGirt]

I found out from having to replace our old stove- that I installed aftermarket replacement elements on- that the over-all wattage rating of these modern smooth top induction stoves makes a lot of difference. we got a Frigidaire Induction smooth top with convection capability oven that's rated @ 3,600 watts. It heats a 3.5 gallon boil in no time at all. So your's may likely have a lower wattage rating?

EDIT: whoops - I see this was already discussed.

I have a glass flat-top stove, but it's not induction, so for boiling large quantities of liquid it may even be worse than a standard stovetop. I'm guessing that's the case, here. Also, boil-over of anything super sugary (like hot pepper jelly) can actually pit and damage the glass. One of the reasons the first thing I upgraded as a new brewer was to get an outdoor propane stove.

 

[unionrdr]

So unionrdr you let the primary go for almost a week longer after FG is reached. I have been moving mine over to a glass carboy after FG has been reached. Could that be why I'm getting off flavors too. On this batch I'm adding a flavoring to it so would it be advisable to just leave it in the primary for the full two to three weeks with the flavor addition, instead of moving it into a secondary fermenter?

About the only way I can see getting off-flavors from secondary would be through an infection. As long as the secondary's clean, sanitized & gives minimal head space, it should be ok. I don't secondary for dry hopping myself. But for fruit additions or oaking I do. Those can introduce infections, but not necessarily off flavors. I just found that giving the beer 3-7 days after FG is reached to give a cleaner tasting beer. Besides settling out more & making it clearer.
And dirt, those old smooth tops, like the one we had years ago, were tough to boil large quantities on. This higher wattage induction smooth top seems to have fixed that problem.