Uncrushed Grain in Non Food Safe Container

[KennyPowers55]

Is it acceptable to weigh non crushed grain in a non food safe bucket, such as the one from home depot?

I am working on my first AG batch not using a recipe kit, but I only had one food grade bucket to crush my grain into. I used a small tupperware (filling it multiple times) to weigh out the grain, but in the future is it safe to use a homer bucket if I don't have a food grade bucket available?

 

[Stillraining]

Yes..they are safe HDPE buckets..I know of a pro brewer whom fermented in them as a successful nano brewer. Hence the name of his brewery. Dirty Bucket Brewing Co.

 

[daksin]

Yeah, as long as you're not storing or fermenting in them, they're fine to use as tools. Go for it!

 

[PatrickGoss]

You could use a bedpan on anything pre boil and be safe.

 

[thekraken]

You're fine. There is a 3 part podcast series on Basic Brewing Radio with a pro toxicologist and somewhere in there he discusses home depot bucket, basically just don't brew your brew in non white (food grade) buckets. The non white stuff, while hdpe, is often recycled second hand stuff. But that's in regard to contact with hot liquids, I wouldn't worry about contact with dry room temp stuff.

Check out the podcast series, it's informative.

 

[RM-MN]

I'm sure every farmer who raises grain stores the uncrushed grain in nothing but food safe containers like these.

 

[Pappers_]

i'm sure every farmer who raises grain stores the uncrushed grain in nothing but food safe containers like these.

lol!

 

[bob1852]

Is it acceptable to weigh non crushed grain in a non food safe bucket, such as the one from home depot?

I am working on my first AG batch not using a recipe kit, but I only had one food grade bucket to crush my grain into. I used a small tupperware (filling it multiple times) to weigh out the grain, but in the future is it safe to use a homer bucket if I don't have a food grade bucket available?

Just because they're not produced/labelled as "food safe" doesn't make them "food unsafe".

 

[C-Rider]

Been fermenting and bottling in white 2 gallon paint buckets from HD for years and I'm still alive and have won medals at contest w/that beer.

 

[NSMikeD]

Been fermenting and bottling in white 2 gallon paint buckets from HD for years and I'm still alive and have won medals at contest w/that beer.

the Argee white paint buckets from HD are food safe, the orange are not.


That being said, you are implicitly representing to those who drink your beer (like judges) that you have taken reasonable steps to ensure food safety. They are trusting you. It's reprehensible that you would would play Russian Roulette with their health, remote as the possibility of exposing them to carcinogens and poisons may be over something as simple as using food grade equipment.

 

[C-Rider]

the Argee white paint buckets from HD are food safe, the orange are not.


That being said, you are implicitly representing to those who drink your beer (like judges) that you have taken reasonable steps to ensure food safety. They are trusting you. It's reprehensible that you would would play Russian Roulette with their health, remote as the possibility of exposing them to carcinogens and poisons may be over something as simple as using food grade equipment.

Since we agree the white buckets are food safe I have exposed no one to anything except good beer.

 

[bob1852]

the Argee white paint buckets from HD are food safe, the orange are not.


That being said, you are implicitly representing to those who drink your beer (like judges) that you have taken reasonable steps to ensure food safety. They are trusting you. It's reprehensible that you would would play Russian Roulette with their health, remote as the possibility of exposing them to carcinogens and poisons may be over something as simple as using food grade equipment.

I think the alcohol in the beer itself does a good enough job of exposing judges to "carcinogens and poisons."

 

[thekraken]

the Argee white paint buckets from HD are food safe, the orange are not.


That being said, you are implicitly representing to those who drink your beer (like judges) that you have taken reasonable steps to ensure food safety. They are trusting you. It's reprehensible that you would would play Russian Roulette with their health, remote as the possibility of exposing them to carcinogens and poisons may be over something as simple as using food grade equipment.

Yeah I'm confused by this. You're saying it would be reprehensible IF they played roulette with their health? Or are you saying that they already did?

They stated they used food grade buckets... Lots and lots of folks use them, that particular risk is on the judges.

 

[RM-MN]

There is no guarantee that the orange Home Depot buckets are not safe for food, only that they have not been tested for that. They may or may not leach dye from the plastic to the liquid or dry ingredients but since it is so easy to get the white HDPE buckets, why take a chance?

 

[bleme]

the Argee white paint buckets from HD are food safe, the orange are not.


That being said, you are implicitly representing to those who drink your beer (like judges) that you have taken reasonable steps to ensure food safety. They are trusting you. It's reprehensible that you would would play Russian Roulette with their health, remote as the possibility of exposing them to carcinogens and poisons may be over something as simple as using food grade equipment.

So you should only submit your beers to contests if your equipment is stainless steel from end to end and your operation has been inspected by the health inspector. Got it.

 

[NSMikeD]

So you should only submit your beers to contests if your equipment is stainless steel from end to end and your operation has been inspected by the health inspector. Got it.

stainless steel is not the only food safe equipment. HD states their white paint buckets are food safe but not their orange paint buckets.

The OP did not know that until it was pointed out to him (or at least he implied it).

fwiw , I do BBQ competitions and we only serve judges. and participation requires we know and comply with health department food safety regs. Occasionally an organizer will inspect the pit area.

Granted raw chicken is not the same as beer making. But as I said, if you are knowingly not using food safe equipment, you shouldn't be serving strangers, especially since it's such a cheap piece of equipment to replace.

 

[NSMikeD]

dupe

 

[thekraken]

stainless steel is not the only food safe equipment. HD states their white paint buckets are food safe but not their orange paint buckets.

The OP did not know that until it was pointed out to him (or at least he implied it).

I think they were being sarcastic

 

[bob1852]

Food grade
Food safe
Fit for purpose

These are all slightly different terms that are all important....too many times people say "food safe" when they mean "food grade" and vice versa, and people rarely understand that something can be food safe when fit for purpose, but not food safe when used for another purpose.

Or, RDWHAHB.

 

[bkboiler]

gonna have to agree with the food safety police on this one. the guests to whom you serve your beer are making the assumption you've taken reasonable precautions to protect their health. health inspectors look for stuff like this when checking restaurants.

 

[Puddlethumper]

the Argee white paint buckets from HD are food safe, the orange are not.


That being said, you are implicitly representing to those who drink your beer (like judges) that you have taken reasonable steps to ensure food safety. They are trusting you. It's reprehensible that you would would play Russian Roulette with their health, remote as the possibility of exposing them to carcinogens and poisons may be over something as simple as using food grade equipment.

This is why I love my job. Hootnicks like this provide a good deal of humor to those involved in real science.

Homer Buckets are not signed off by all the Federal Rego types as food safe but you aren't going to get anything from them that will harm your health if you ferment your beer in them. The only real difference between food grade and non-food grade buckets is the release agent used in the molding process, which, by the way, is washed away in the buckets' first exposure to PBW. The real issue with Homer Buckets is that they are just too darned small! You can't ferment a 5 gallon batch of beer in any container less than 6 gallons unless you like a lot of crap on the floor of your fermenting chamber. Get some 6 gal. or bigger buckets, carboys or whatever to ferment your beer. Use the Homer buckets for cleanup, collecting waste grains, whatever.

 

[bleme]

It's reprehensible that you would would play Russian Roulette with their health

The OP is using orange buckets to carry uncrushed grain in, which is perfectly safe. C-Rider is using the white buckets to ferment in, which is also perfectly safe. Throwing around hyperbole like "reprehensible" and "Russian Roulette" is irresponsible.

 

[NSMikeD]

The OP is using orange buckets to carry uncrushed grain in, which is perfectly safe. C-Rider is using the white buckets to ferment in, which is also perfectly safe. Throwing around hyperbole like "reprehensible" and "Russian Roulette" is irresponsible.

The was no intent to use hyperbole. C-Ryder did not offer anything in his post to suggest he knew that that the white buckets were food safe other than his anecdote that he hadn't harmed anyone, yet.

Puddlethumper was the first person in this thread to offer any validation that, after washing in PBW, the orange buckets are food safe. No one has confirmed or rejected his claim, however I am inclined to accept his word and credibility as face value.

I absolutely said the chance was remote. That is exactly what Russian Roulette is, and I remain stead fast that if someone willingly ignores that they are not using food safe equipment, that is irresponsible on their part.

My statement does not apply to the OP, since he had the decency to not take chances and instead inquired.

It took me all of 2 minutes to look up HDs buckets to find out the white ones are food safe. There is no hardship in verifying our equipment is food safe before serving others.

 

[C-Rider]

This has come up time after time here...The HD buckets are food safe regardless of color.

 

[thekraken]

This has come up time after time here...The HD buckets are food safe regardless of color.

I'll stand by what the toxicologist recommended for now: steer clear of colored buckets at least for hot liquids.

 

[swampbrewcrew]

I'll stand by what the toxicologist recommended for now: steer clear of colored buckets at least for hot liquids.

I find it unlikely that a large chain of restaurants doesn't use a food safe bucket for pickles. View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1488567336.239960.jpg

 

[bob1852]

I'll stand by what the toxicologist recommended for now: steer clear of colored buckets at least for hot liquids.

Which is why "food safe" and "food grade" are irrelevant designations without knowing "fit for purpose."

Something can be legally food safe but not be food safe if used for a different purpose...

Stainless steal is safe to store food in, but not to reheat food in a microwave.

 

[thekraken]

I find it unlikely that a large chain of restaurants doesn't use a food safe bucket for pickles. View attachment 391309

I find that unlikely too. The argument here isn't that the color or dye in of itself is unsafe, it's that white food grade buckets are made from virgin materials while the dyed stuff is *typically* made from recycled who knows what unless otherwise stated.

I'm just repeating what I heard from an actual toxicologist on the matter. He recommended *avoiding* non food safe plastics. He didn't say we would grow a tail or our children would have 3 eyeballs, just that it's best to avoid these plastics. He came to this recommendation after discussions directly with manufacturers. Keep in mind that over the course of 3 podcasts that this is about the only caution I can remember this guy giving (aside from you know... booze), it seemed like all the health safety questions that homebrewers might have and he investigated that he pretty much concluded they were nothing to worry about.

For reference:
http://www.basicbrewing.com/index.php?page=basic-brewing-radio-2013
November 14, 2013
December 12, 2013
February 27, 2014
Sorry, I have no idea in which of these three episodes he discussed the buckets.