Uh oh. Wild yeast? Infection?

[VikeMan]

My best guess is is my batch of StarSan needs replaced

Are you reusing starsan solution?

 

[Jayjay1976]

Please stop encouraging people to risk their safety.

I didn't tell anybody to do anything.

 

[Miraculix]

Well I "StarSan'd" the entire set up before pumping the wort in. I did exactly nothing different than I've done countless times before. This is my first infection in 10+ years of brewing.

My best guess is is my batch of StarSan needs replaced and/or since I brew outside, something wild found it's way in. Either way, I shan't leave raw wort sit unattended that long again.

Star San works well against bacterias but does almost nothing against yeasts. Which strengthens the theory that you got a brewer's yeast infections there

 

[easttex]

Are you reusing starsan solution?

I was, yes. Time to mix up a new batch.

Star San works well against bacterias but does almost nothing against yeasts. Which strengthens the theory that you got a brewer's yeast infections there

Likely so. Which is why I'm going to use Iodophor when I rebrew it tonight.

 

[Miraculix]

I was, yes. Time to mix up a new batch.


Likely so. Which is why I'm going to use Iodophor when I rebrew it tonight.

I don't know if iodophor works against yeasts... These guys are hardy little organisms.

I use oxyclean to soak my fermenter and everything before storage and on brew day they get sprayed with star San. Works well for me.

 

[VikeMan]

I was, yes. Time to mix up a new batch.

Five Star (the company that makes Star San) recommends using it within an hour of mixing. You can get away with longer (maybe forever) if you make it with distilled water, but either way, I wouldn't reuse it.

 

[Damnjones]

Not scaring people, just trying to talk some sense here. I'm not a microbiologist, and I don't have a degree in organic chemistry.

Why is it that some people feel the need to go off the deep end and scare people by throwing out bold statements regarding poison when the original question was regarding strange activity observed when using a new yeast?

If you havent yet asked the internet you can find some good info here.
https://beerandwinejournal.com/q-a-botulism/If you followed good clean brewing practices there is minimal risk for dangerous infections as all home brewers are aware. The key take away is if it doesnt smell off and you are confident in your process then wait and see what you get. If you dont like the taste prior to bottling then toss it.

The activity you are describing sounds somewhat normal but a bit over active and the pictures provided show that there could be kahm yeast in your beer. Nothing you have shown or described is very concerning or something I havent seen before.

Let us know how it tastes.

 

[Garrett_McT]

Alright Einstein, here is an article from the Beer & Wine Journal that botulism can build up to lethal after 3 days. Here is the article:

https://beerandwinejournal.com/q-a-botulism/
Please stop encouraging people to risk their safety. The whole idea here is safe beer making. You start causing people to do this kind of thing the next thing you will see the government step in... Or maybe some injury attorney will come after you personally...View attachment 736268

Thanks for the info. Up until now I never knew there was a chance of getting dangerous bacteria or pathogens in my wort and beer. But honestly with the higher SG of most worts the boiling point of that liquid will increase beyond the boiling point of water (which is most typically 1.0000, actually slightly lower at ATP, with a boiling point of 212 degrees F). I would be curious to dig into the boiling points of liquids with SG around 1.035, which is typically the lowest gravities I have ever seen for my beer and compare it to the required temp to kill botulism at 240.

 

[VikeMan]

I would be curious to dig into the boiling points of liquids with SG around 1.035, which is typically the lowest gravities I have ever seen for my beer and compare it to the required temp to kill botulism at 240.

Wort boils at slightly higher temps than water. Like so slightly that the difference is probably within the error of most thermometers.

 

[Beermeister32]

Thanks for the info. Up until now I never knew there was a chance of getting dangerous bacteria or pathogens in my wort and beer.

I usually pitch within a couple hours, on lagers I run it down to 46F and pitch the next morning. Never an issue.

The reason this one stuck out is that I've not seen one sit there 3 days at 100F fermenting on its' own with whatever was in the environment before adding yeast.

The published article showed that there was a potentially lethal hazard in doing that.

 

[Damnjones]

I usually pitch within a couple hours, on lagers I run it down to 46F and pitch the next morning. Never an issue.

The reason this one stuck out is that I've not seen one sit there 3 days at 100F fermenting on its' own with whatever was in the environment before adding yeast.

The published article showed that there was a potentially lethal hazard in doing that.

The high temp described in the initial post is consistent with Norwegian Kveik though. There is always the possibility to bad bacteria to enter but you should have also seen the 3 words at the end of this sentence "The conditions for the growth of C. botulinum are met by boiled wort stored in a sealed container, but not beer"

and also here

" There is not a single case of botulism attributed to making beer in the normal manner. "

While kviek is not normal with regard to temp range are we not still following the normal process for making beer?

Lets hope we hear back and this beer comes out tasting great. Hopefully we can all learn something new through other brewers experiences with Norwegian Kveik.

reference: BWJ Q & A (Botulism)

 

[Beermeister32]

Beermeister32 has been reading too many Prop65 labels...

This coming from a brewer with an "Orange Depot" logo.... You'd know, plenty of them there...!

 

[Beermeister32]

The high temp described in the initial post is consistent with Norwegian Kveik though.

Yes, but look at the original story - It didn't get the Kviek until it was fermenting on its own for 3 days at 100F, so you don't know what was growing there....

 

[Garrett_McT]

The high temp described in the initial post is consistent with Norwegian Kveik though. There is always the possibility to bad bacteria to enter but you should have also seen the 3 words at the end of this sentence "The conditions for the growth of C. botulinum are met by boiled wort stored in a sealed container, but not beer"

and also here

" There is not a single case of botulism attributed to making beer in the normal manner. "

While kviek is not normal with regard to temp range are we not still following the normal process for making beer?

Lets hope we hear back and this beer comes out tasting great. Hopefully we can all learn something new through other brewers experiences with Norwegian Kveik.

reference: BWJ Q & A (Botulism)

I agree about the aspect of a very low, almost no possibility of botulism. But the catch with the OP wort. He let it stand in the closed fermenter for two or some days before pitching the yeast. That leaves it wide open for any trace amounts of bacteria that is almost on any surface or wild yeast to grow. But yet again it’s weird that it grew enough to full krausen almost like a pure pitch vial. That seems crazy.

 

[foscojo]

He let it stand in the closed fermenter for two or some days before pitching the yeast.

40 hours. Yeah, I was shock it blew up that fast, too.

 

[ba-brewer]

Yes, but look at the original story - It didn't get the Kviek until it was fermenting on its own for 3 days at 100F, so you don't know what was growing there....

I know the safe thing to do according to that article is to dump the beer, but In about 1.5 2.5days the beer was at or past high Krausen so would that not say it did not sit the full time as wort, meaning the botulism risk should be low or not to toxic levels.

I agree about the aspect of a very low, almost no possibility of botulism. But the catch with the OP wort. He let it stand in the closed fermenter for two or some days before pitching the yeast. That leaves it wide open for any trace amounts of bacteria that is almost on any surface or wild yeast to grow. But yet again it’s weird that it grew enough to full krausen almost like a pure pitch vial. That seems crazy.

Full krausen and no fermentation aroma at 100F, too bad the voss was pitched that might been a good yeast to isolate.

edit: changed 2.5days to 1.5days was counting calendar days not by hours

 

[VikeMan]

I know the safe thing to do according to that article is to dump the beer, but In about 2.5days the beer was at or past high Krausen so would that not say it did not sit the full time as wort, meaning the botulism risk should be low or not to toxic levels.

Based on the OP, it sounds like high krausen was reached in 40 hours (or less).

 

[Jayjay1976]

So is it dangerous to store unfermented wort? Will it be sterile enough to stay fresh and safe for more than a year? What if the malt or the hops were contaminated with C. Botulinum? Boiling alone cannot deactivate the spores, that takes 250f+ yet this not an uncommon practice.

 

[foscojo]

Hot Fill Bags

Noice. I'm going to grab some of those. I may try "no chill" but if not they would be handy jic.

 

[ba-brewer]

@foscojo, what types of yeast have you recently used and how did you get the wort into the fermentor?

 

[foscojo]

@foscojo, what types of yeast have you recently used and how did you get the wort into the fermentor?

This is a new FerMonster.

 

[ba-brewer]

I know the fermentor is brand new but I dont see a lot of trub in the fermentor so I am wondering how did the wort go from the brew kettle to the fermentor. Anything used to do that should be considered tainted and extra effort put into clean it or replacing it.

It is possible something wild floated into your fermentor but it is most likely you contaminated the wort with another yeast you use.

 

[foscojo]

I know the fermentor is brand new but I dont see a lot of trub in the fermentor so I am wondering how did the wort go from the brew kettle to the fermentor. Anything used to do that should be considered tainted and extra effort put into clean it or replacing it.

It is possible something wild floated into your fermentor but it is most likely you contaminated the wort with another yeast you use.

Ah. I used the ball valve in the pot and tubing to transfer the wort to the fermenter.

The first thing I did before starting was clean everything with PBW. I disassembled the ball valve and washed the valve, nut, and silicone washer separately. On the FerMonster, I washed the uninstalled spigot, container, lid, and lid o-ring separately. Then before reassembling everything I soaked all the parts in Star San while I got my ingredients together.

 

[ba-brewer]

Ah. I used the ball valve in the pot and tubing to transfer the wort to the fermenter.

I disassembled the ball valve and washed the valve, nut, and silicone washer separately.

Does disassemble mean to actually take the valve apart or just remove the assembly from the kettle? If not there are places for junk to grow inside them.

It does sound like you are doing the right things though.

 

[foscojo]

Does disassemble mean to actually take the valve apart or just remove the assembly from the kettle? If not there are places for junk to grow inside them.

It does sound like you are doing the right things though.

I took apart all of the parts that could be taken apart.

 

[foscojo]

Update: So I pitched the kviek on Monday at 9am @ 1.071. I just checked it at 10:30pm on Thursday @ 1.040 (zero activity). I went ahead and dry hopped it with 4 oz Centennial. I'll check it again on Monday hoping to bottle early next week.

 

[ba-brewer]

1.071 to 1.040 is not much attenuation.

Curious what style of beer is/was this suppose to be? How did you measure gravity?

 

[foscojo]

1.071 to 1.040 is not much attenuation.

Curious what style of beer is/was this suppose to be? How did you measure gravity?

It is a Bell's Two Hearted IPA clone. OG was with both a refractometer and hydrometer. This reading was with just the refractometer.

 

[Stormcrow]

It is a Bell's Two Hearted IPA clone. OG was with both a refractometer and hydrometer. This reading was with just the refractometer.

Did you adjust the final refrac reading with a formula accounting for alcohol?

 

[foscojo]

Did you adjust the final refrac reading with a formula accounting for alcohol?

No. My refractometer has consistently matched my hydrometer to the decimal after calibrating it with distilled water.