Two Brand New Apfelwein Questions

[GroovePuppy]

I jokingly said to SWMBO that I had to go to the LHBS to pick up an extra fermentor so I could make some Apfelwein it sounds so tasty and simple. Anywho, to my amazement, she didn't realize I was just being a wise ass and simply told me not to be late. Woohoo.

So this leads me to my questions. I have a plastic bucket primary and a 5 gallon glass carboy. The primary has my Nut Brown in it which will get transferred to the carboy on Saturday. I will need the primary back two weeks after that for a bottling bucket so I need something to put the Apfelwein in for 4 weeks (and for other future brews) so what to buy. I could get a bottling bucket with a spigot and free up the primary that way but I'm leery about investing in something that will only get used for such short periods each brew. I could get a 6 gallon Better bottle so I can watch yeasties in future. :rockin: (OK, taking longer to get to my questions than I envisioned.)

1) Apfelwein seems to be always fermented in a 5gallon carboy. Is there a particular reason for this or could it work just as well in a bucket?

2) Apfelwein has a reputation for being what we call "loopy juice" where I'm from, leaving one with the merest smidgen of a hangover! I assume this is due to the corn sugar fermentation? Is there something I could substitute that would make it less "hot" and less hangover-inducing? (OK, that was a two-parter.)

Any inputs generally on what I should add to my small brew kit next also appreciated. Hey I just thought. Couldn't I use my brew pot for priming and bottling? Hope I didn't just talk myself out of a purchase.

Scary how fast this takes over. I haven't even cracked a bottle on my first brew (thanks mostly to Revvy's insistence), brew#2 is in primary, I'm planning on starting an Apfelwein on Saturday after I make root beer with my son, and I'm having difficulty deciding whether the next brew should be a Hob Goblin or the Oatmeal Mocha Stout I saw here yesterday.

 

[FishinDave07]

1) I've fermented it in a bucket.

2) I guess i haven't had enough to behold its "hang over" effects.

 

[memphomaniac]

If it were me, I would get the 6gal Better Bottle. I have a 6.5 glass carboy that I used for the first time this weekend after having used only Better Bottles since I've been brewing again over the last couple months. Of course they both have their pros and cons, but to me the BB's are so much easier to handle and clean (safer too). The BB could be used for your "primary" primary fermenter, and then you would have your current bucket as a bottler when you need it.

 

[bearkluttz]

I have a 5 gallon glass carboy just for apfelwein. Works great and i don't have to lug that heavy ass thing around too often since apfelwein needs no secondary.

 

[BigKahuna]

1. dont' matter what you brew it in...long as you brew it.
2. Just keep doing it...the hangovers subside eventually.

 

[GroovePuppy]

2. Just keep doing it...the hangovers subside eventually.

Ah hah! A purist!

 

[GroovePuppy]

Actually I have yet another new Apfelwein question. I'm planning on priming and bottling to 2 litre soda bottles. I just spoke to a homebrewer at work who suggested I leave 2" at the top, squeeze the air out, then refrigerate when the bottles are firm. Surely a 2L soda bottle will take the same carbonation pressure as a capped glass bottle? Surely? No?

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

1. Already answered but my reasoning is... if the shoe fits.... this does not form a krausen so you can fill the 5g all the way and be fine.

2. Corn sugar does not give you a hangover. If you feel that Apfelwein is giving you a hangover when other things do not, three things could be at work:
a. you drank too much and don't know your limits
b. you fermented very warm and produced a large quantity of fusel alcohol which DOES give you a hang-over. The solution is to ferment at a lower temp (63ish works well)
c. you are a head case. Most people who say "wine gives me a hang-over" or equivalents thereof, just drank too much and got a hang-over. Yes, Apfelwein is stronger than most beer, so if you drink the same volume of Apfelwein and beer, you will be more drunk with the Apfelwein and will likely have a larger hang-over. Option c is not the fault of the beverage but the user (see option a)

 

[Yooper]

Actually I have yet another new Apfelwein question. I'm planning on priming and bottling to 2 litre soda bottles. I just spoke to a homebrewer at work who suggested I leave 2" at the top, squeeze the air out, then refrigerate when the bottles are firm. Surely a 2L soda bottle will take the same carbonation pressure as a capped glass bottle? Surely? No?

Of course it will. It'll hold even more carb pressure than the glass ones- I mean, soda is at a much higher carbonation level than beer. Maybe he meant to refrigerate the bottles when firm, as then they are ready to drink?

 

[GroovePuppy]

Of course it will. It'll hold even more carb pressure than the glass ones- I mean, soda is at a much higher carbonation level than beer. Maybe he meant to refrigerate the bottles when firm, as then they are ready to drink?

That's what I figured Yooper. I know you didn't mention over-pressure when I mentioned using soda bottles in a previous post. Not sure if my friend is being over-cautious, has never primed into plastic, or is just confusing things with soda. She makes some damn fine brews though so I didn't want to just ignore her advice.

 

[fratermus]

I use 5gal glass for AW and just let it sit for 60days in that primary. No krausen w/montrachet, so I fill'er right up.

With 3068 there was actual krausen and I had to use a blowoff.

 

[Throckmorton]

Thought I would throw out an additional question here about Ed Wort's apfelwein recipe here since we are posting questions. In the original recipe, it sounds like folks are simply dumping the yeast into to carboy. Is there any need to proof???

 

[sflcowboy78]

Thought I would throw out an additional question here about Ed Wort's apfelwein recipe here since we are posting questions. In the original recipe, it sounds like folks are simply dumping the yeast into to carboy. Is there any need to proof???

No need to rehydrate the yeast, or use a starter. just dump it and forget it. (alot like my ex-girlfriend)

 

[GroovePuppy]

I do have one extra question to add to the Apfelwein thread. My Nut Brown is in a Rubbermaid with water and ice bottles sittting between 64-66F. If I secondary that on Saturday and put the AP in primary which one gets the cold water bath?

I think ambient without it will be ~70-72F. All my other Rubbermaid containers have small holes in the bottom for some reason.

 

[Throckmorton]

I do have one extra question to add to the Apfelwein thread. My Nut Brown is in a Rubbermaid with water and ice bottles sittting between 64-66F. If I secondary that on Saturday and put the AP in primary which one gets the cold water bath?

I think ambient without it will be ~70-72F. All my other Rubbermaid containers have small holes in the bottom for some reason.

I'm no expert, but if you only have room for one fermenter in your ice bath, I would always go with the primary. That is where the majority of the fermentation takes place and where off flavors can occur if the temp is to hot.

 

[IFMracin]

What do most people bottle their Apfelwien into?

 

[Edcculus]

What do most people bottle their Apfelwien into?

I prime and bottle like I would beer. Others keg, others go for the non carbonated route. Its just a matter of taste. Personally, I like the carbonated version best. Since I enjoy drinking Apfelwein with others, I try to get it into as many Rogue and bigger bottles as possible.

 

[yermej]

b. you fermented very warm and produced a large quantity of fusel alcohol which DOES give you a hang-over. The solution is to ferment at a lower temp (63ish works well)

Hmmmm...with the Apfelwein and Montrachet yeast, any idea on the top end of fermentation temps? I've got a batch in the basement that fermented at a room temp of about 72 F. The data sheet I found didn't have info on ideal fermentation temps. I'll give it a try no matter what, but am I likely to be in trouble with respect to hang overs?

 

[yeoldebrewer]

Is the relationship between fermentation temps > about 70 deg and fusel production true for Aflelwein as well as beer? The listed temperature max for Montrachet wine yeast is pretty high.

 

[Kauai_Kahuna]

Your married and got an OK? - WOW, I think that is a first.

If its in your budget, go to your LHBS, buy two plastic buckets, a BB carboy, charge it on your credit card and just say it was a little more than you expected but you know your both love the results.

Primary, secondary is fine in plastic. I prefer glass carboys because I like to see what's going on, but that is me and now required.
2 liter PET bottles are GREAT for short term, I would not use them for more than 2 months. Usually they do not last more than a few days around here.

Best of luck, and let us know how things come out.

 

[Kauai_Kahuna]

2. Just keep doing it...the hangovers subside eventually.

Oh -- I do hope sooooooo.......

 

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

I use my old 2.5 gal Mr Beer fermenter for cider. I had wondered what to do with it for months! It makes life more interesting.

 

[mlanoue]

I just bottled most of my batch in green plastic Perrier bottles yesterday. They're half-litre and really tough. I threw 5 Munton's carbonation caps in each bottle. We'll see how it turns out. I also bottle some in a regular wine bottle--not to carbonate. It tastes quite good right now, and it's still young.

 

[Dagatris]

You can use your brewpot as a bottling bucket. Assuming it's big enough to hold the 5 gallons from your fermenter, and assuming you sanitize it well. The beer will only be in there a little while.

 

[yermej]

Is the relationship between fermentation temps > about 70 deg and fusel production true for Aflelwein as well as beer? The listed temperature max for Montrachet wine yeast is pretty high.

I asked a similar question, but ended up searching and find the answer. EdWort stated his ferments at 75-78 ambient, cooling down at night. I'm guessing he would adjust this if he felt it necessary and since he doesn't and it's his recipe, I'm okay with mine sitting at 72.

 

[GroovePuppy]

I asked a similar question, but ended up searching and find the answer. EdWort stated his ferments at 75-78 ambient, cooling down at night. I'm guessing he would adjust this if he felt it necessary and since he doesn't and it's his recipe, I'm okay with mine sitting at 72.

He does also refer to monster hangovers however.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

Wow, Ed ferments that high.... I had no idea. I fermented my first batch at about 60-64 ambient and it was fine. My next batch (happening soon) will be fermented with a larger amount of yeast (2 packs per 5g) and at 63º fermentation temp (not ambient). My version was very clean but I am thinking I can do better.

That said, I don't get hangovers from my Apfelwein any more than anything else. If you drink in moderation, and are not allergic to anything in the wein, the hangover will be proportionate to how much you drink. Just have a water in between drinks and you will be fine. Hydration is the key if you have problems with hangovers.

 

[GroovePuppy]

If you drink in moderation...

Oh I always drink in moderation, but once I get to moderation I always seem to keep on going.

"Everything in moderation, except moderation."

 

[RonRock]

Here is what I did. Take it FWIW, but it seems like the Apfelwein is tasty enough that it will be a hit. So more than likely will always need some "brewing" I made my first batch in a bucket so I did'nt tie up my glass carboy. Trouble is I can't see what is going on in there. So I went out and got a 5 gallon water jug. Culligan, I think. I have a batch going in it now. Figure for 7 bucks I can use it specifically for Apfelwein, since it is 5 gal and I don't need to worry about blow-off. And I can see inside. Might get another!

Just a thought.

 

[syd138]

I was talking to somebody on another site about apfelwein and he said that if you bottle it in wine bottles.. you can let it sit for a year and it'll almost taste like champaigne.

Any truth to this?

 

[UnaBonger]

I was talking to somebody on another site about apfelwein and he said that if you bottle it in wine bottles.. you can let it sit for a year and it'll almost taste like champaigne.

Any truth to this?

I think the bottle would be irrelevant and the champaigne taste would come from the yeast you choose to use, ie, champainge yeast... But I would say, the longer it sits in the bottles, the smoother it gets

 

[jpuf]

Bingo, it's all about the yeast. Different strains produce wildly different flavor profiles. Trust me, I've tried a bunch, including ec1118 which made apple champagne, as expected. My personal favorite is nottingham, tart but not too dry.

 

[syd138]

Bingo, it's all about the yeast. Different strains produce wildly different flavor profiles. Trust me, I've tried a bunch, including ec1118 which made apple champagne, as expected. My personal favorite is nottingham, tart but not too dry.

I went to the homebrew store.. they were out of the yeast that was in EdWorts recipe. so I tried ec1118. We'll see how it is in a couple months.

One last quick question.. Is it too soon to bottle it after 4 weeks?

 

[Kauai_Kahuna]

syd138 - I did 1 month primary, 1 month secondary and into a keg for long bulk aging. (I'm trying to learn patience). -- patience is the key, longer = better.

 

[syd138]

syd138 - I did 1 month primary, 1 month secondary and into a keg for long bulk aging. (I'm trying to learn patience). -- patience is the key, longer = better.

Shoot .. I was hoping to have some ready by Christmas. Do I really need a secondary though? Will it ferment as well?

 

[Throckmorton]

According to Ed, there is no need to do a secondary. I don't really see a point in it personally. If it isn't clear after 4 weeks, I think it will still continue to clarify in the bottle. A lot of folks don't bother to do a secondary with beer either. If you think about it, a beer bottle is just like a small secondary. The main difference as I see it is that you may get more sediment on the bottom of your bottle if you don't secondary with beer. I don't think you will have that much regardless with the apple wine.

 

[rmchair]

Keep it simple. I just made applewine and was trying to keep the temps in the 60's and it was taking forever, then I saw someones comment about fruit flavors and decided there would be no harm in warming it up into the low 70's. I recommend using something you can see through for a fermenter. You can see actually see it clearing up when the gravity is shaping up right.
Soda bottles seem like a great idea for this whether you want to carb or not. You can buy a case of 12/24 oz pepsi or 16 oz coke at the grocery that are cheaper than cans. The pepsi bottles have better caps.
I kegged mine without turning up the gas and it seems perfect after a week. It also started to sweeten up or I got used to it. One thing- I was trying to sip it like a white wine, but it goes down a lot better gulping to the back of the throat in the heat of the day.
I did get a headache after two large glasses in quick succession, but I can also tell you this stuff will knock down a large animal.