Turning your Fermonster into a complete closed transfer system for cheap!

[Jayjay1976]

Overpitch?

 

[Docod44]

My first time using this, it works like a charm

 

[Dgallo]

My first time using this, it works like a charmView attachment 717488

How do you like that bow tie spunding valve? I’m interested in getting one but wondering what your experience has been. I’ve heard some mixed reviews

 

[Elric]

How do you like that bow tie spunding valve? I’m interested in getting one but wondering what your experience has been. I’ve heard some mixed reviews

I quite like mine, haven’t had any issues with it. I have the newer one with the built in little psi gauge as opposed to the older model shown above. It’s fine control means you can use it for some odd non-standard tasks (i’m all about the hacks and MacGyvers). Example, need to supply a very fine amount of co2 but your regulator doesn’t go low enough? Put the blowtie between regulator and vessel sat to the same psi as your regulator, then just lower the bowtie by a small amount to get a small steady flow of gas. Don’t have a cold crash guardian? Pressurize a small pop bottle and connect it to gas in on your fermenter with blowtie inbetween dialed in to slightly higher psi than your bottle is pressurized to. Release small amounts of gas into fermenter as it chills to combat negative pressure. I also bought one of the new duotight regulators but when I bought it they were out of the ones with the osi gauge. Not an issue though as i go main regulator to duotight regulator to blowtie. I crank the bowtie down crank duotight regulator down and open my main regulator to 5 pai or so more than I want to set duotight regulator to. I then start opening up the duotight regulator until the pressure reading on the blowtie matches what I want the regulator set at. Since it stays closed while the pressure builds, the only gas I waste while getting the regulator set is what has accumulated in the short runs of tubing between the three devices, very economical!

 

[Dgallo]

I quite like mine, haven’t had any issues with it. I have the newer one with the built in little psi gauge as opposed to the older model shown above. It’s fine control means you can use it for some odd non-standard tasks (i’m all about the hacks and MacGyvers). Example, need to supply a very fine amount of co2 but your regulator doesn’t go low enough? Put the blowtie between regulator and vessel sat to the same psi as your regulator, then just lower the bowtie by a small amount to get a small steady flow of gas. Don’t have a cold crash guardian? Pressurize a small pop bottle and connect it to gas in on your fermenter with blowtie inbetween dialed in to slightly higher psi than your bottle is pressurized to. Release small amounts of gas into fermenter as it chills to combat negative pressure. I also bought one of the new duotight regulators but when I bought it they were out of the ones with the osi gauge. Not an issue though as i go main regulator to duotight regulator to blowtie. I crank the bowtie down crank duotight regulator down and open my main regulator to 5 pai or so more than I want to set duotight regulator to. I then start opening up the duotight regulator until the pressure reading on the blowtie matches what I want the regulator set at. Since it stays closed while the pressure builds, the only gas I waste while getting the regulator set is what has accumulated in the short runs of tubing between the three devices, very economical!

Thanks for the info. Much appreciated

 

[Docod44]

How do you like that bow tie spunding valve? I’m interested in getting one but wondering what your experience has been. I’ve heard some mixed reviews

It settled in and worked pretty accurately 24 hours after pitching the yeast. It held 12 psi for ~72 hours and then started losing pressure as fermentation subsided. I double-checked the fermenter and everything was airtight, the issue ended up being the duotight "T" fitting with the pressure gauge. I removed the pressure gauge and just have the QD and the blowtie valve and the pressure has kept perfectly. I think it's around 10 psi because that's what it last was and the fermenter hasn't lost any tension but I have no way to check until I keg the beer.

 

[Elric]

It settled in and worked pretty accurately 24 hours after pitching the yeast. It held 12 psi for ~72 hours and then started losing pressure as fermentation subsided. I double-checked the fermenter and everything was airtight, the issue ended up being the duotight "T" fitting with the pressure gauge. I removed the pressure gauge and just have the QD and the blowtie valve and the pressure has kept perfectly. I think it's around 10 psi because that's what it last was and the fermenter hasn't lost any tension but I have no way to check until I keg the beer.

It’s perfectly normal to see pressure drop as fermentation starts to wrap up. As the beer stops producing copious amounts of co2 it starts to absorb co2 from the headspace instead of releasing co2 which causes the pressure drop. Temps also drop as fermentation abates and temperature reductions also lower internal pressure as cold crashing clearly demonstrate.

 

[kondi]

My first time using this, it works like a charm

Which Fermonster model are you using? Looks like the 3 gallons one, or am I mistaken?

 

[cmac62]

Which Fermonster model are you using? Looks like the 3 gallons one, or am I mistaken?

I have both the 3 and 7 gal versions and the lid works great on both.

 

[Docod44]

Which Fermonster model are you using? Looks like the 3 gallons one, or am I mistaken?

Yes, this is the 3 gallon. I usually aim for 2.6 - 2.75 gallons into my 3 gallon keg after fermentation and it's nice to find that the pressure keeps the krausen down.

 

[Knightshade]

What is everybody doing to ensure that they don't end up clogged come transfer to keg day? I've had 2 instances....including today, where for some unknown reason, I only get about 25% in before the transfer just...stops.

I did transfer a little bit of crap from brew day, but the whirl floc usually takes care of that and puts it down at the bottom. I can't get a great whirlpool collection in the middle of my kettle due to utilizing an Anvil Foundry? Or maybe I just suck at it, haven't had much success.
I did have a 2 oz dry hop for this particular batch, probably a larger amount for the other batch mentioned.

I did a 3 day staged cold crash, ultimately getting down to 35 F.
Seal is great, holds plenty of CO2
I check the transfer tube....nope, not the problem. No clogs.
I'm looking..looking in the fermonster...looks like the line is clear, the end is submerged into beer, not in some layer of gunk...WTF

I ultimately end up giving up..on both today's and previous occurrence and switch out the lid with a new floating dip tube. Finishes out no problem..but all that effort to keep out O2 and then...just...argh.

Afterwards...I check everything to see how 'well' liquid runs through the lines..and it seems to be fine. I take apart the liquid ball lock from the lid, and there are a couple of pieces (2), but nothing to indicate a clog.

So...WTH am I missing..or doing differently..I just don't get it.

 

[Dgallo]

What is everybody doing to ensure that they don't end up clogged come transfer to keg day? I've had 2 instances....including today, where for some unknown reason, I only get about 25% in before the transfer just...stops.

I did transfer a little bit of crap from brew day, but the whirl floc usually takes care of that and puts it down at the bottom. I can't get a great whirlpool collection in the middle of my kettle due to utilizing an Anvil Foundry? Or maybe I just suck at it, haven't had much success.
I did have a 2 oz dry hop for this particular batch, probably a larger amount for the other batch mentioned.

I did a 3 day staged cold crash, ultimately getting down to 35 F.
Seal is great, holds plenty of CO2
I check the transfer tube....nope, not the problem. No clogs.
I'm looking..looking in the fermonster...looks like the line is clear, the end is submerged into beer, not in some layer of gunk...WTF

I ultimately end up giving up..on both today's and previous occurrence and switch out the lid with a new floating dip tube. Finishes out no problem..but all that effort to keep out O2 and then...just...argh.

Afterwards...I check everything to see how 'well' liquid runs through the lines..and it seems to be fine. I take apart the liquid ball lock from the lid, and there are a couple of pieces (2), but nothing to indicate a clog.

So...WTH am I missing..or doing differently..I just don't get it.

Do you have the prv opened or a way to let air escape your keg while the beer is entering?

are you working with or against gravity on the transfer ?

 

[Knightshade]

So on this last transfer...air wasn't escaping at all and was building up in the fermonster itself. I had a duo tight stupid person beer catcher attached to it, there is a pic of it up above in post 175. I disconnected that, just to make sure that wasn't the issue and opened the PRV, same no joy.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/thread...r-system-for-cheap.680992/page-5#post-9024751
Transfer tube was flowing..but when it all stopped, it just kinda emptied out on either end. So I'm assuming that the tubing in the fermonster itself was causing the problem, but not sure how to go about avoiding it in the first place?

I'm kind of working against gravity a little bit...keg and fermonster are basically on the same level of the garage, so the beer does have to flow up the fermonster tubing and across to the keg.

 

[IslandLizard]

Transfer tube was flowing..but when it all stopped, it just kinda emptied out on either end. So I'm assuming that the tubing in the fermonster itself was causing the problem, but not sure how to go about avoiding it in the first place?

I'm kind of working against gravity a little bit...keg and fermonster are basically on the same level of the garage, so the beer does have to flow up the fermonster tubing and across to the keg.

That loss of transfer followed by the tubing emptying out, sounds more like losing prime or pressure. If there's not enough pressure it just stalls but the tubing should remain full.

The siphon function helps the transfer in the beginning, until the beer level in the keg becomes level with that in the fermonster. Then it's all pressure that needs to do the work transferring the beer uphill, while the column of beer in the keg is pushing down on it.
IOW, the pressure applied needs to push the beer up, against gravity, and will do so as long as the pressure force overcomes that of gravity of all beer involved. You may not have enough pressure to overcome that.

 

[Tallgrass]

I went the easy route and use a "temp control loop" from ball and keg. Skipping the floating dip tub and just use the spigot to a liquid DC after a cold crash. Before transfer I fill the hydrometer tube which clears anything that settled in the spigot. Used on every brew since October 2019 and the only problem was when I forgot to hook up the gas line to the keg. It blew the bung up but with all the lines attached it landed safely back in the hole.

 

[Knightshade]

That loss of transfer followed by the tubing emptying out, sounds more like losing prime or pressure. If there's not enough pressure it just stalls but the tubing should remain full.

The siphon function helps the transfer in the beginning, until the beer level in the keg becomes level with that in the fermonster. Then it's all pressure that needs to do the work transferring the beer uphill, while the column of beer in the keg is pushing down on it.
IOW, the pressure applied needs to push the beer up, against gravity, and will do so as long as the pressure force overcomes that of gravity of all beer involved. You may not have enough pressure to overcome that.

Hmm...something to consider..but how much isn't enough pressure? I noticed that the lid was starting to not look so flat, and the walls of the fermonster itself were getting fairly rigid with the thumb pushing check. (Fairly common method used to check ball pressure, soccer, basketballs, etc.) I was perhaps pushing 5'ish PSI into it via the regulator reading?

When I finally gave up and decided the hell with it, I'm just going to switch the damn lid and its associated tubing, I placed an empty gas ball lock and there was a significant release of pressure...as in it seemed that more than 1 second went by and it was still expelling co2.

 

[IslandLizard]

Hmm...something to consider..but how much isn't enough pressure? I noticed that the lid was starting to not look so flat, and the walls of the fermonster itself were getting fairly rigid with the thumb pushing check. (Fairly common method used to check ball pressure, soccer, basketballs, etc.) I was perhaps pushing 5'ish PSI into it via the regulator reading?

When I finally gave up and decided the hell with it, I'm just going to switch the damn lid and its associated tubing, I placed an empty gas ball lock and there was a significant release of pressure...as in it seemed that more than 1 second went by and it was still expelling co2.

5 psi may or may not be enough. Those Fermonsters are really not designed for much pressure, be careful! That lid or a piece of it blowing in your face can cause serious injury, even at 5 psi, there's a lot of gas in there!

The idea of these transfers is to apply just enough CO2 pressure to start the siphon, then gravity does the actual transfer (through the siphon action), while you keep the headspace filled with CO2 instead of it filling with air.

Once it starts bulging but there is no transfer it's either too heavy to push or there's a clog somewhere.

When liquid pre-purging kegs I transfer the Starsan in a similar way as you do with your beer, from the full keg into an open bucket or another keg, everything placed on the floor. There's no siphon taking place at all that way, the CO2 pressure just pushes out the Starsan. That's usually at 12 psi, but I reduce it to 4-6 psi toward the end. Same when "jumping" a keg of beer after lagering or cold crashing.

I'd test it out by using the exact same setup, but doing a transfer with water or Starsan so you can "clearly" see what's happening.

 

[Knightshade]

5 psi may or may not be enough. Those Fermonsters are really not designed for much pressure, be careful! That lid or a piece of it blowing in your face can cause serious injury, even at 5 psi, there's a lot of gas in there!

The idea of these transfers is to apply just enough CO2 pressure to start the siphon, then gravity does the actual transfer (through the siphon action), while you keep the headspace filled with CO2 instead of it filling with air.

Once it starts bulging but there is no transfer it's either too heavy to push or there's a clog somewhere.

When liquid pre-purging kegs I transfer the Starsan in a similar way as you do with your beer, from the full keg into an open bucket or another keg, everything placed on the floor. There's no siphon taking place at all that way, the CO2 pressure just pushes out the Starsan. That's usually at 12 psi, but I reduce it to 4-6 psi toward the end. Same when "jumping" a keg of beer after lagering or cold crashing.

I'd test it out by using the exact same setup, but doing a transfer with water or Starsan so you can "clearly" see what's happening.

That was my exact thought as I was releasing pressure...."I'm surprised that this thing didn't blow up in my face...yikes."

Yeah..and that transfer of beer that I had in the previous post...it went beautifully..no issues. Both that have given me grief have been an IPA and this PA, both of which were dry hopped. So I thought maybe I was just missing something. I suppose I could lift up the fermonster up onto the cabinet, but with all the jostling that I'm sure to introduce in doing so, it could potentially kill off the benefit of cold crashing in the first place...

I'll try the star san thing..thats a good idea...I've got a keg full of it right now anyways. and maybe I'll stand off to the side a bit..with safety goggles on...

 

[Elric]

I suppose I could lift up the fermonster up onto the cabinet, but with all the jostling that I'm sure to introduce in doing so, it could potentially kill off the benefit of cold crashing in the first place...

I always move my fermenters after cold crashing. As long as you go carefully it shouldn’t really have a negative impact. A good cold crash will compact your trub nicely and it will take a good shake to stir it back up

 

[ddrum2000]

So I might have missed this earlier...

I would like to to a pressurized fermentation with the Fermonster as described above. I'm not looking to go above 7 psi or so. A few questions:

1. Would a ported version be a bad idea since there is another place for a leak to occur?
2. Is there a female fitting for the PRV? I have some low pressure ones that vent at about 7 psi.
3. How would you compare this method using the Fermonster/the Fermzilla flat bottom/Spiedel plastic/Fast ferment? I would like to fit this in my mini fridge kegerator for cold crash.

Thanks.

 

[NSMikeD]

I’m pulling the trigger tonight on the 3 gal system. I’m not seeking to pressurize ferment now. I do plan to dry hop and also do clued transfer to a keg.
I can’t fit a keg in my mini fridge, so am I correct .....

1) connect an open ended line to the gas side and put said open end into a jar of star San to serve a# my bow off tube
2) connect to CO2 and dry hop as per @Dgallo
3) cold crash low CO2 level (I have a cartridge CO2 with regulator I use on my kegs while aging and cold crashing)
4) on keg day, fill keg with star San. Purge with CO2 then put CO2 on the FV, jump FV liquid to liquid (dip tube) side keg and pressure transfer with pressure release valve on keg loosened.

Comments?

 

[Tallgrass]

Thought I would put this here since we are modifying and perhaps pushing the limits of these fermenters.
I had 2 fermonsters fail within days of each other a couple weeks back. Neither failure was catastrophic but could have been if I didn't notice the wet towel under one or that the other had less PBW mix then it did the day before. Both were about a year old and developed cracks along the bottom. Each maybe 15 batches.
It might be a good idea to inspect closely after each batch.

What might have caused this?

After pitching yeast I routinely tilt the bottle back and give it a good swirl/shake.
They routinely saw a pound or two of pressure pushing starsan out of a 5 gallon corny.
I cold crash to 40f in the fermonster
During the cold crash I add a bit of co2 pressure to make up for the negative pressure created. Once mistakenly enough pressure to blow the bung out but just in one of them.

This didn't stop me from buying a new one. In fact the new one is next to me bubbling away but with a seltzer and a standard airlock.

 

[Dgallo]

What psi do you typically allow it to get to? That a strange place for them to crack, curves take psi much better than flat surfaces, typically the cap will crack first being a less flexible plastic and flat. That said it happened to two of them, so definitely something to look out for

 

[IslandLizard]

Both were about a year old and developed cracks along the bottom. Each maybe 15 batches.

That's pretty darn alarming. Glad you noticed.

In the picture I see some deeper scuff marks on the right one, lighter marks on the left one. Are they used and moved on a hard rough (cement) floor? Could that have something to do with it? Are you tilting them to pick them up or agitate?

A few years ago, at the very end of Big Brew Day, one guy in a group of brewers did an overhead Hulk-move in the parking lot with a Fermonster, halfway filled with Starsan. He lost grip and the thing landed on the tarmac, bounced a few times, then rolled. There was no visible damage, cracks, dents, just some scratches. The lid didn't even come off or cracked. Lucky for them.

 

[Tallgrass]

I have lost a couple lids to those cracks. They are difficult to see.
I don't know how much pressure it takes to push starsan out of the keg. Can't be more than a few pounds. I get some negative pressure during cold crash. Not enough to pull the sanitizer back out of the bucket into the keg.
Intially I thought the act of tipping it back to get a swirl going caused the damage but the cracks are not opposite the spigot. That was always on a folded towel on my cooler top. Looking again... One has a crack at about 4:30(upside down spigot facing me) the other is cracked at 1 and 6. It would never had seen the full weight at the spigot side.
I brew in my basement and yes it is a cement floor. Never slide on the floor when full. The scratches are likely from the cement and moving around empty though.
I'm sure I'm 50/50 picking it up by both hands on the lip near the lid and tilting it back to get a hand under it.

I probably should have started a new thread instead of derailing yours. Just a friendly reminder to check once in a while for any damage.

 

[Dgallo]

I have lost a couple lids to those cracks. They are difficult to see.
I don't know how much pressure it takes to push starsan out of the keg. Can't be more than a few pounds. I get some negative pressure during cold crash. Not enough to pull the sanitizer back out of the bucket into the keg.
Intially I thought the act of tipping it back to get a swirl going caused the damage but the cracks are not opposite the spigot. That was always on a folded towel on my cooler top. Looking again... One has a crack at about 4:30(upside down spigot facing me) the other is cracked at 1 and 6. It would never had seen the full weight at the spigot side.
I brew in my basement and yes it is a cement floor. Never slide on the floor when full. The scratches are likely from the cement and moving around empty though.
I'm sure I'm 50/50 picking it up by both hands on the lip near the lid and tilting it back to get a hand under it.

I probably should have started a new thread instead of derailing yours. Just a friendly reminder to check once in a while for any damage.

I don’t consider this derailing, your sharing your experience. It’s definitely something to look out for.

 

[IslandLizard]

I'm sure I'm 50/50 picking it up by both hands on the lip near the lid and tilting it back to get a hand under it.

That could be one of the causes forming those cracks, compressing the flat, non-recessed part of the bottom.

I have some old, 6 gallon Better Bottles. They've not been abused, but have had many years of good use on them, also on a cement floor. They have no signs of cracking anywhere. Maybe it's a tougher, not as brittle form of PET. Definitely a bit thicker than Fermonsters, if I had to guess.

 

[NSMikeD]

Just checked, my order should arrive Friday. I’m kegging the Pilsner tomorrow to continue aging in the mini fridge but I believe my basement is 60~65 which I think will be good for a NEIPA not under pressure. So I’m planning on a Monday NEIPA brew and taking a shot at low O2 closed transfer after the primary fermentation and dry hopping schedule.

 

[NSMikeD]

I’m set for brewing a NEIPA Monday. This arrived today.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

I’m set for brewing a NEIPA Monday. This arrived today.

Is that the 3 gallon version? I have a pair of the 3 gallon and one of the 7 gallon. (though I have not added the ball lock posts)