Turning your Fermonster into a complete closed transfer system for cheap!

[Brewer Mike]

Here is the article I wrote for Brew Your Own for this build. The part list portion has the orings I used. But over tightening with cause the issue discussed. I used orings on both sides of the lid.

Thanks! Nicely done article. I remember you soliciting photos, but never saw the finished article.

 

[Broken Crow]

As Broken Crow mentioned, This was an attempt at his version.
I had built your version, but found it finicky to get a seal. If I tighten to much, my silicone washers mush out between the post/nut and the lid. You wouldn't have links to the washers/seals would you?

I was just typing this response when @Dgallo posted his excellent article above (Thanks!) ...In step 3; As long as you're using a grooved locknut with an o-ring on the inside, you only need "hand tighten" it...most bulkhead failures involving o-rings happen because of either overtightening, or the lack of a grooved locknut. Is your locknut grooved?

@Dgallo; I only noticed the "OP" next to your name this morning..I often miss what should be obvious and I've gotten accustomed to long threads having been started by long absent OP's... I just want to take a moment and express my deepest gratitude for you for this thread...it was the deciding factor that made me overcome my worries about plastic and switch from glass carboys to Fermonsters. Thanks Eternally!!

 

[Shenanigans]

I just went to my 'beer-bits' bench and threw this together to give you a rough idea;
View attachment 839456
View attachment 839457
Of course though, you'll run into a similar problem that @Brewer Mike is having and won't have access to a diptube (at least not easy-access, and you'll probably have to put a female NPT>barb fitting on the inside;
View attachment 839458
I used a 1/2" barb because that's what I had laying around... finding one in stainless seems to be problematic. @Dgallo 's nylon barb suggestion is probably your best bet.
Just spitballin' and hoping to be helpful... let us know what you end up doing.

Thanks I get the idea now.

I might have another solution, I see there is a 6 and 7 gallon version of the fermonster.
I have the 7 gallon version and the 6 gallon one is apparently 2 to 2.5 inches shorter.
Hopefully it's big enough to get a full 5 gallons of beer for the keg.

I found a shop that is selling them online for 16.99 € in Germany- stock clearance.
Thats about half price compared to other shops, the only thing is they have no lids without a hole left.
I could use the lid I have already prepared but maybe I want to make a second one.

BTW looking at the BYO article I did it slightly different, I added a 3 inch dip tube to the gas post - cheaper than a barb and less screwing around but maybe i might want to add a clamp around the tube just in case.

Edit: just saw your point about the grooved locknut - mine is smooth but appears to be airtight.
If I have problems maybe I could add a grooved washer inbetween instead of replacing the nut.

 

[Broken Crow]

Thanks I get the idea now.

I might have another solution, I see there is a 6 and 7 gallon version of the fermonster.
I have the 7 gallon version and the 6 gallon one is apparently 2 to 2.5 inches shorter.
Hopefully it's big enough to get a full 5 gallons of beer for the keg.

I found a shop that is selling them online for 16.99 € in Germany- stock clearance.
Thats about half price compared to other shops, the only thing is they have no lids without a hole left.
I could use the lid I have already prepared but maybe I want to make a second one.

BTW looking at the BYO article I did it slightly different, I added a 3 inch dip tube to the gas post - cheaper than a barb and less screwing around but maybe i might want to add a clamp around the tube just in case.

Edit: just saw your point about the grooved locknut - mine is smooth but appears to be airtight.
If I have problems maybe I could add a grooved washer inbetween instead of replacing the nut.

Sounds promising. Let us know how it works out, but especially: If you ever find a grooved stainless steel washer for 1/2" NPT fittings; PLEASE post a link! ..That's been something of a Holy Grail for me for some time now.
https://www.blacksheepbrewery.com/our-beers/monty-python/holy-grail/

 

[Dgallo]

I was just typing this response when @Dgallo posted his excellent article above (Thanks!) ...In step 3; As long as you're using a grooved locknut with an o-ring on the inside, you only need "hand tighten" it...most bulkhead failures involving o-rings happen because of either overtightening, or the lack of a grooved locknut. Is your locknut grooved?

@Dgallo; I only noticed the "OP" next to your name this morning..I often miss what should be obvious and I've gotten accustomed to long threads having been started by long absent OP's... I just want to take a moment and express my deepest gratitude for you for this thread...it was the deciding factor that made me overcome my worries about plastic and switch from glass carboys to Fermonsters. Thanks Eternally!!

Thanks for the appreciation!

 

[Shenanigans]

Sounds promising. Let us know how it works out, but especially: If you ever find a grooved stainless steel washer for 1/2" NPT fittings; PLEASE post a link! ..That's been something of a Holy Grail for me for some time now.
https://www.blacksheepbrewery.com/our-beers/monty-python/holy-grail/

I think I might have misunderstood exactly what a grooved lock nut was but would an equivalent washer look like this, or are they too rough?
https://www.amazon.de/Toothed-Stain...349&sprefix=selflocking+washers,aps,88&sr=8-2

 

[Broken Crow]

I think I might have misunderstood exactly what a grooved lock nut was but would an equivalent washer look like this, or are they too rough?
https://www.amazon.de/Toothed-Stain...349&sprefix=selflocking+washers,aps,88&sr=8-2

Sorry...amazon links on here rarely work for me as amazon always redirects to the Canadian site searches the item and rarely shows me the actual page. So; Here's a grooved locknut and o-ring;

Whenever you're cobbling together your own bulkhead from a coupler and fittings; Always use a grooved locknut and o-ring on one side and never more than as tight as you can crank it by hand ..(well, ok; for practical purposes, most people can't actually grip a hex-fitting tight enough so use a wrench if you need to, but lightly and never over tighten.)

 

[Bob C.]

Without any liquid?

Yes - some sanitizer. Will that work?

 

[Dgallo]

Yes - some sanitizer. Will that work?

You can from a logistics standpoint but it’s certainly not “best practice”

Ideally you want the keg to be filled to the brim with liquid so you can confirm without a shadow of doubt that the entire volume of the keg was replaced with co2 and there is no o2 at all in the keg. If the keg is empty and you hook up during fermentation, mixing of gasses will occur in the keg and some o2 could remain. Supposedly fermentation produces enough co2 to do so, but I’d rather know for sure.

 

[mac_1103]

If the keg is empty and you hook up during fermentation, mixing of gasses will occur in the keg and some o2 could remain. Supposedly fermentation produces enough co2 to do so, but I’d rather know for sure.

We do know for sure that <5 ppb remains. Not only in theory based on @doug293cz doing the math, but in practice based on someone with the appropriate (expensive) testing equipment confirming that residual O2 was even lower than he had predicted. Pushing out a liquid won't get you to zero either, unless there is zero O2 dissolved in that liquid to start with.

 

[Dgallo]

We do know for sure that <5 ppb remains. Not only in theory based on @doug293cz doing the math, but in practice based on someone with the appropriate (expensive) testing equipment confirming that residual O2 was even lower than he had predicted. Pushing out a liquid won't get you to zero either, unless there is zero O2 dissolved in that liquid to start with.

Does the math work out for piggy backing kegs? Specifically, if hooked up at the start of fermentation, how many kegs could be purged to < 5ppb from a single fermentation?

 

[mac_1103]

Does the math work out for piggy backing kegs? Specifically, if hooked up at the start of fermentation, how many kegs could be purged to < 5ppb from a single fermentation?

The math is not as good for multiple kegs, but of course it depends on how big a beer you brew. IIRC, it was originally worked out for 5 gallons of wort purging a single 5 gallon keg, assuming 1.050 OG and 1.010 FG and making worst case assumptions about mixing. A ten gallon batch will purge two kegs just fine.

 

[VikeMan]

I haven't personally done the math on fermentation-CO2-keg-purging, but it wouldn't be just the batch size and number of kegs that matter. The ABV would also matter...the bigger the beer, the more sugar was turned (partially) into CO2.

I'd also add that 5 ppb (or whatever) of O2 in a keg doesn't mean 5 ppb in relation to the beer that subsequently gets pushed into that keg. The gas mix (mostly CO2, little O2) in the fermentation purged keg weighs a lot less than 5 gallons of beer.

 

[Bob C.]

You can from a logistics standpoint but it’s certainly not “best practice”

Ideally you want the keg to be filled to the brim with liquid so you can confirm without a shadow of doubt that the entire volume of the keg was replaced with co2 and there is no o2 at all in the keg. If the keg is empty and you hook up during fermentation, mixing of gasses will occur in the keg and some o2 could remain. Supposedly fermentation produces enough co2 to do so, but I’d rather know for sure.

Thanks - I think I did not explain well. When fermenting in the fermonster how do I exhaust the CO2? That is what I do not understand. Thanks, I'm new.

 

[Dgallo]

Thanks - I think I did not explain well. When fermenting in the fermonster how do I exhaust the CO2? That is what I do not understand. Thanks, I'm new.

Gotcha all good. If you are using the standard fermonster lid with the bung, you could just use a standard airlock to vent. If your not to the point of kegging your beer, than you most likely do not have a co2 tank and building this lid will have little to no benefit for you

If you are kegging and can perform close transfers then you’ll want the hook up to look like the picture on the front page of the article. Fermenters co2 post to a keg (filled with starSan or nothing) co2 post. And then kegs liquid post to an open ended hose into a brew bucket.

 

[RyPA]

@Broken Crow what size nut are you using? I am getting a leak at the base of my fittings on the lid and trying to figure out a game plan. May try teflon tape.

I’m using a gasket under the lid where the fitting secures with a nut, I think the co2 is running up the threads of the fitting and making its way to the outside.

Edit: Looks like that was the issue. I ran some teflon tape through the threads and then a few normal wraps and no more leaks. I just read that @Dgallo used o-rings on both sides of the lid, which I will do as a long term fix. At least I am good to go for a big stout that I am prepping to brew.

 

[Broken Crow]

@Broken Crow what size nut are you using? I am getting a leak at the base of my fittings on the lid and trying to figure out a game plan. May try teflon tape.

I’m using a gasket under the lid where the fitting secures with a nut, I think the co2 is running up the threads of the fitting and making its way to the outside.

Edit: Looks like that was the issue. I ran some teflon tape through the threads and then a few normal wraps and no more leaks. I just read that @Dgallo used o-rings on both sides of the lid, which I will do as a long term fix. At least I am good to go for a big stout that I am prepping to brew.

I use 1/2" fittings, but yeah; I also use teflon tape on the threads to prevent exactly your thread-seepage issue.

EDIT: I always wonder when I see the word 'gasket' if that's referring to a flat washer or an o-ring...flat washers don't work anywhere near as well; with an o-ring in a grooved nut it will slightly spall while tightening and be confined to press itself against the coupler. Flat washers...not so much.

 

[Brewer Mike]

@Broken Crow
Update - I doubled the amount of thread tape I was using, and it seems to have taken care of my NPT leaks. I used Blue Monster thread tape which feels thicker that the normal stuff.

 

[RyPA]

I use 1/2" fittings, but yeah; I also use teflon tape on the threads to prevent exactly your thread-seepage issue.

EDIT: I always wonder when I see the word 'gasket' if that's referring to a flat washer or an o-ring...flat washers don't work anywhere near as well; with an o-ring in a grooved nut it will slightly spall while tightening and be confined to press itself against the coupler. Flat washers...not so much.

Yeah, I am using a flat rubber gasket on the inside and nothing on the outside.

Where did you find that nut with the groove for the o-ring? and what is the size/thread size? Maybe I will use that for the inside and move the rubber ring gasket to the outside.

I have my fermonster with around 2 psi in it now, going to see if the teflon tape allows it to hold the pressure. I thought about using some kind of sealant around the fittings on the top of the lid if all else fails.

 

[Broken Crow]

Yeah, I am using a flat rubber gasket on the inside and nothing on the outside.

Where did you find that nut with the groove for the o-ring? and what is the size/thread size? Maybe I will use that for the inside and move the rubber ring gasket to the outside.

I have my fermonster with around 2 psi in it now, going to see if the teflon tape allows it to hold the pressure. I thought about using some kind of sealant around the fittings on the top of the lid if all else fails.

https://www.brewhardware.com/SearchResults.asp?Search=locknut&Submit=It doesn't mention the groove in the title, but it does in the desription. I've experimentally tried flat washers with hit and miss results...the only way I've had a flat washer hold pressure was using the flanged nut and a good amount of teflon tape then tightening it a bit beyond my comfort level. Now I'll often include a spare grooved one or 3 plus o-rings to add on to orders when I need to spend just a bit more to hit the $150 free-shipping limit... better to have and not need than need and not have.

 

[RyPA]

https://www.brewhardware.com/SearchResults.asp?Search=locknut&Submit=It doesn't mention the groove in the title, but it does in the desription. I've experimentally tried flat washers with hit and miss results...the only way I've had a flat washer hold pressure was using the flanged nut and a good amount of teflon tape then tightening it a bit beyond my comfort level. Now I'll often include a spare grooved one or 3 plus o-rings to add on to orders when I need to spend just a bit more to hit the $150 free-shipping limit... better to have and not need than need and not have.

Thank you, what are you using on the top of the lid, if anything?

So these 2?

https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/locknutpremium_14.htm
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/kegpost_oringred.htm

 

[Broken Crow]

I did put a flat silicone and flat SS washer on top, but not to seal it (I rely solely on the captive internal o-ring for that) ; I prefer to minimize the amount of threads exposed inside, plus I don't like to torque down hardware by twisting it and possibly digging in to bare plastic, so it's mostly a spacer with a smooth top for tightening down my cross on and not really needed for anything but personal peace of mind while assembling.

 

[RyPA]

I keep getting leaks after re-Teflon taping the threads a few times. It’s on there pretty thick now and out of desparation added some hot glue around all potential leak areas on the outside of the lid

 

[Shenanigans]

I just went to my 'beer-bits' bench and threw this together to give you a rough idea;
View attachment 839456
View attachment 839457
Of course though, you'll run into a similar problem that @Brewer Mike is having and won't have access to a diptube (at least not easy-access, and you'll probably have to put a female NPT>barb fitting on the inside;
View attachment 839458
I used a 1/2" barb because that's what I had laying around... finding one in stainless seems to be problematic. @Dgallo 's nylon barb suggestion is probably your best bet.
Just spitballin' and hoping to be helpful... let us know what you end up doing.

Thanks for the pictures.
I just got the 6 gallon fermonster delivered and it fits in my fridge
It will be tight but should be possible to add a ball lock adaptor on top.

I also ordered an 90 degree angle just in case.
I'm still waiting on the barb and grooved locknuts.
But now I see the threads on the angle are a bit short for putting through the hole in the lid and connecting a barb.
I guess I need some kind of extention piece but I'm not exactly sure what it's called to do a search.
Or is it better to search for an angle piece with longer threads?

Thanks!

 

[Broken Crow]

Looks like you bought the street-elbow rather than the regular female/female elbow...my first thought is that you'd need the grooved locknut/o-ring on the outside of the lid and anchor it with an internal female NPT>1/4" barb (which seems to not be easily sourced unless you want brass, or nylon..nylon being unlikely to take the needed torque.) ..and you'd still not be able to connect the hose directly to the diptube.
Going by your pic, it looks like you have room, but if you don't, or if it's too close for your comfort; Rather than reinvent the wheel, you can keep @Dgallo 's excellent original design and just use the low-profile duotight disconnects;

https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/keg_ball_qd_duo_liquid_tiny.htmLet us know your choices.

EDIT: I just went to my bench and put a grooved locknut and o-ring on to a street-elbow. and the remaining threads barely make it through the Fermonster lid..not enough to fit anything at all on the inside.

 

[Shenanigans]

Looks like you bought the street-elbow rather than the regular female/female elbow...my first thought is that you'd need the grooved locknut/o-ring on the outside of the lid and anchor it with an internal female NPT>1/4" barb (which seems to not be easily sourced unless you want brass, or nylon..nylon being unlikely to take the needed torque.) ..and you'd still not be able to connect the hose directly to the diptube.
Going by your pic, it looks like you have room, but if you don't, or if it's too close for your comfort; Rather than reinvent the wheel, you can keep @Dgallo 's excellent original design and just use the low-profile duotight disconnects;
View attachment 839842
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/keg_ball_qd_duo_liquid_tiny.htmLet us know your choices.

EDIT: I just went to my bench and put a grooved locknut and o-ring on to a street-elbow. and the remaining threads barely make it through the Fermonster lid..not enough to fit anything at all on the inside.

Yes I did indeed buy the wrong type of elbow but not to worry as I have to order a few other bits and pieces and can add the correct type.
For the 6 gallon FerMonster the original setup is working but with the connector pointing upwards the tubing is a bit crimped so the low-profile duotight connectors you linked would be a good option.
However if I do go the elbow route with the correct female/female elbow what are you using to connect it to the barb?

BTW I saw these which might work with the elbow I have but could only find them in 1/2" not 1/4"

 

[Bob C.]

I’ve posted this in a few thread and I get quite a bit of messages regarding my process of doing this so I figured I would create a thread on the process. This is by far the cheapest closed fermenting/ transferring system.


So what you will be doing is modifying a fermonter’s solid lid and fitting it with both liquid and gas keg posts and a floating dip tube.Here is the easiest/cheapest way to go;

1) 7 Gallon Fermonster with spigots (makes hydro samples easy) with solid cap $33.99
FerMonster Carboy With Spigot - 7 gal. | MoreBeer

2) Fermontisourus pressure kit $29.99 - you’re buying this to take the parts, the liquid and gas posts and the floating dip tube to use for your solid lid.
Fermentasaurus Pressure Kit | MoreBeer
Optional pressure kit for the Fermentasaurus Concial Fermenter allows you to ferment under pressure, carbonate, and serve all in one vessel!

www.morebeer.com

3) 7/16” or 1/2” drill bit so you can drill out the solid cap for the posts. Make sure you measure so that have them far enough a part so both ball lock fittings can go on at the same time but close enough when you maintain the stability of the lid. $2.

7/16" HSS Black Oxide Jobber Length Drill Bit, Qualtech
7/16" HSS Black Oxide Jobber Length Drill Bit, Qualtech. Find this item and other cutting tools on DrillsandCutters.com.

drillsandcutters.com

4) then you just needs some hose, clamps, and balllock fittings for your transfer lines.

all together you’re looking at just below $70 for a fermenter with closed transfer and pressure dryhoping capabilities. It’s also light weight and incredibly easy and quick to clean

Benefits of doing this verses fermenting in the keg;
1) You will yield a full 5 gallons of trub free beer from each of your recipes helping you become more consistent
2) You now can use all your kegs for serving purposes.
3)You can see fermentation take place which for me is almost as good as watching a fire lol

 

[Bob C.]

I’ve posted this in a few thread and I get quite a bit of messages regarding my process of doing this so I figured I would create a thread on the process. This is by far the cheapest closed fermenting/ transferring system.


So what you will be doing is modifying a fermonter’s solid lid and fitting it with both liquid and gas keg posts and a floating dip tube.Here is the easiest/cheapest way to go;

1) 7 Gallon Fermonster with spigots (makes hydro samples easy) with solid cap $33.99
FerMonster Carboy With Spigot - 7 gal. | MoreBeer

2) Fermontisourus pressure kit $29.99 - you’re buying this to take the parts, the liquid and gas posts and the floating dip tube to use for your solid lid.
Fermentasaurus Pressure Kit | MoreBeer
Optional pressure kit for the Fermentasaurus Concial Fermenter allows you to ferment under pressure, carbonate, and serve all in one vessel!

www.morebeer.com

3) 7/16” or 1/2” drill bit so you can drill out the solid cap for the posts. Make sure you measure so that have them far enough a part so both ball lock fittings can go on at the same time but close enough when you maintain the stability of the lid. $2.

7/16" HSS Black Oxide Jobber Length Drill Bit, Qualtech
7/16" HSS Black Oxide Jobber Length Drill Bit, Qualtech. Find this item and other cutting tools on DrillsandCutters.com.

drillsandcutters.com

4) then you just needs some hose, clamps, and balllock fittings for your transfer lines.

all together you’re looking at just below $70 for a fermenter with closed transfer and pressure dryhoping capabilities. It’s also light weight and incredibly easy and quick to clean

Benefits of doing this verses fermenting in the keg;
1) You will yield a full 5 gallons of trub free beer from each of your recipes helping you become more consistent
2) You now can use all your kegs for serving purposes.
3)You can see fermentation take place which for me is almost as good as watching a fire lol

I have a problem. I received everything to put this together BUT - the gas/liquid out are hard connected to the piece that is supposed to screw on to the ferzilla. See pictures. How can I use this on the fermonster.

 

[mac_1103]

How can I use this on the fermonster.

I don't think you can. The old Fermentasuarus kit and the new Fermzilla kit are not the same.

 

[Mr. Vern]

(Edited to delete, I am overthinking O2 PPM levels in gas)