buzzkill
Well-Known Member
why not wrap it in a cloth and dip that? the cloth will soak up the plastie dip and make it thicker,stronger. a T-shirt dipped carboy.
Trying to solve the carboy problem
- Thread starter feedbag
- Start date
Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:
feedbag
Well-Known Member
Great test hound dog, I'm glad to see it hold together like I expected. I'm going to do one this weekend and I'm going to try a few methods to improve the grip. I'm interested to see your break test homebeerbrewer. I think that will the make it or break it test (slight pun intended). Thanks again everyone for your input. I'm going to figure out the grip issue and get back to you guys.
springer
Well-Known Member
I posted this in broke a carboy thread I just put the glass carboy in a 5 gallon bucket this way if it breaks no glass flying around and no beer on the floor. Also the bucket protects the carboy from getting bumped in the first place . Also I can pick up the carboy with the pail handle never actually touching the carboy.
hexmonkey
Well-Known Member
springer
Well-Known Member
My 6.5 gallon carboys won't fit in a 5 gallon bucket.
you got me thinking mine is also a 6.5 I may have used a larger bucket I'll look when I get home .
lamarguy
Well-Known Member
Just to play devil's advocate....I find it amazing how much time and money people will spend inventing and testing workarounds to a problem that is already solved - don't use glass to contain and transport 40+ lbs of water.
Carry on...
Carry on...
Springer, I've thought about that, but it will only work for the 5 gal carboys. Good idea though.
Lamarguy, I'd rather spend $20 or so (plus a spare carboy) to keep using the equipment I have. Plus, if this experiment works, it may help others who use glass.
Lamarguy, I'd rather spend $20 or so (plus a spare carboy) to keep using the equipment I have. Plus, if this experiment works, it may help others who use glass.
lamarguy
Well-Known Member
Just a thought, but if you truly want to help others that ferment in glass, consider starting an insurance plan to cover glass carboy breakage accidents. The cost of an ER visit and surgery is quite a price to pay for using glass...
Some might consider this trolling, but I'm just stating the facts.
This stuff is $$$$$ http://garage-toys.com/pldip5ga.html
Thankfully I have good insurance. I just got my ER bill yesterday, and all I have to pay is $25. I haven't received the ambulance bill yet, but the last time I took an ambulance ride, I didn't pay a dime for it.
Everybody's got an opinion...
That's a five gallon bucket of the stuff. The 14 oz can I bought was just over $10. I have two coats on the 5 gal carboy, and I probably have enough to apply two more coats. To me, that's cheap for the piece of mind that I hope to achieve.
If I used glass fermenters, I would go to the dollar store an buy a couple rolls of packing or strapping tape, the kind with strings in it. I bet you could throw it off a parking garage and not lose a single shard.
Thankfully I have good insurance. I just got my ER bill yesterday, and all I have to pay is $25. I haven't received the ambulance bill yet, but the last time I took an ambulance ride, I didn't pay a dime for it.
Everybody's got an opinion...
That's a five gallon bucket of the stuff. The 14 oz can I bought was just over $10. I have two coats on the 5 gal carboy, and I probably have enough to apply two more coats. To me, that's cheap for the piece of mind that I hope to achieve.
Yeah then that is totally worth it. I am going to go get a can this weekend and do it to one of my carboys. Great idea and thanks for doing the testing on this!!
Is that a challenge I hear..lmao!!!! I think I am going to stick with the spray on idea.
Yeah, I challenge masonjax to buy a 5 gal carboy, wrap it up in the tape, and throw it off a parking garage. I wanna see pics of the whole process. A video would be good too.
nutty_gnome
Well-Known Member
I think that the wow factor of rubberizing a glass carboy is pretty cool. But when you come right down to it, I'd raher put my faith in something more substantial. For example, I think that the Clear Duct Tape from Nashua (Nashua 176) wrapped around the carboy would be more effective in a catastrophic accident. And its pretty clear. See it here:
Nashua 176 Clear Duct Tape at FindTape.com
Nashua 176 Clear Duct Tape
Nashua 176 Clear Duct Tape has transparent woven PE fibers with a clear acrylic adhesive. Easy to tear and use. Nashua Clear Duct Tape makes invisible repairs around the home & workplace with the strength of standard duct tape. Note: some of the new lot of Nashua 176 we received comes on a blank white core.
Nashua 176 Clear Duct Tape specifications:
Adhesive: clear acrylic
Carrier/Backing: polyethylene fibers
Thickness: 5.5 mils (total)
Adhesion: 30 ounces per inch (to stainless steel)
Tensile Strength: 38 pounds per inch (longitudinal)
Core: 3" diameter
Available at home depot or lowes, I've seen it at one of them. I concede that duct tape is not as 'sexy' as spray on rubber.
Nashua 176 Clear Duct Tape at FindTape.com
Nashua 176 Clear Duct Tape
Nashua 176 Clear Duct Tape has transparent woven PE fibers with a clear acrylic adhesive. Easy to tear and use. Nashua Clear Duct Tape makes invisible repairs around the home & workplace with the strength of standard duct tape. Note: some of the new lot of Nashua 176 we received comes on a blank white core.
Nashua 176 Clear Duct Tape specifications:
Adhesive: clear acrylic
Carrier/Backing: polyethylene fibers
Thickness: 5.5 mils (total)
Adhesion: 30 ounces per inch (to stainless steel)
Tensile Strength: 38 pounds per inch (longitudinal)
Core: 3" diameter
Available at home depot or lowes, I've seen it at one of them. I concede that duct tape is not as 'sexy' as spray on rubber.
feedbag
Well-Known Member
My first thought was to use a tape, or even better yet, this stuff. The reason I thought the rubber coating would be better is for the durability with getting wet. I could see tape coming off after repeated uses of getting wet. As far as all the criticism of my idea, not saying any names, glass is still one of the best things to use for fermentation when it comes to price, oxygen permeability, holding flavors, etc. I would advocate a stainless conical, but I don't have to hundreds to pony up. Homebeerbrewer has a thread where he went to the hospital for a glass carboy and that is what inspired me to make a change. I really think this could work and solve several problems at once.
That actually might be worth the price of a carboy, I may actually do it.
For those that actually try the rubberize method, be sure to keep us updated with how it holds up. I'm pretty happy with my Better Bottles, but there's a lot of people using glass, and it would be great if they could easily increase their safety.
From the small tests, it looks like it might peel off pretty easily. You might try using some glass etching cream (Armour Etch @ armourproducts.com) on the carboy first. That might give a better surface for the rubber to adhere to and prevent peeling.
I'm not sure what Hound Dog did to prep his growler, but I cleaned the outside with soap and water, dried, then wiped it with rubbing alcohol just before applying the Plasti Dip. I'll be doing the break test with the carboy half full of water this weekend. I'll be posting the results here, along with pics.
Anyone worried about the insulating properties of the plasti-coat? Here in Texas I bought an Ice Cube style cooler to use as a water bath for my fermentors. Will the plasti-coat act to trap the heat of fermentation in the carboy? Just a thought......
Pez.
Pez.
I dunno. I thought about the insulation properties of it, but I'm more interested in the ability to prevent injury to worry about that too much. I'd think that it would provide a small amount of insulation to the carboy, but not enough to ruin your beer.
Sorry folks, I haven't had a chance to do the test yet. It's on the schedule for tomorrow afternoon, so I'll post the results tomorrow evening.
Here's what I did to test this idea:
I bought a 14 oz can of Plasti Dip, cleaned the outside of the carboy with soap and water, then cleaned with rubbing alcohol using a paper towel, and then painted the Plasti Dip (without diluting it with anything) onto the carboy with a sponge brush. The 14 oz can gave me enough to apply four coats to the carboy.
Once dry, I took it outside, placed it in a cardboard box, filled to about 3/4 full with water, then tried hitting it with a hammer. The box didn't allow much room to swing the hammer with enough force to break it, so I decided to try dropping it. The first couple of drops were on the lawn, which seemed to give a little when being impacted by the weight. I then placed a piece of slate under the box, and tried dropping it on that. The first two attempts weren't successful, but I was determined, so I dropped it a third time. With the final drop, I tried to direct it onto the corner. That did the trick.
I quickly grabbed my camera to take pictures of the aftermath. Notice the water level in the box. There were several small holes in the coating that were spraying water out. It won't save the beer, but it will slow the loss down.
Though it isn't 100% safe from shards of glass puncturing the skin, it does seem to add a measure of protection. I will be doing this to all of my remaining carboys in the near future.
I bought a 14 oz can of Plasti Dip, cleaned the outside of the carboy with soap and water, then cleaned with rubbing alcohol using a paper towel, and then painted the Plasti Dip (without diluting it with anything) onto the carboy with a sponge brush. The 14 oz can gave me enough to apply four coats to the carboy.
Once dry, I took it outside, placed it in a cardboard box, filled to about 3/4 full with water, then tried hitting it with a hammer. The box didn't allow much room to swing the hammer with enough force to break it, so I decided to try dropping it. The first couple of drops were on the lawn, which seemed to give a little when being impacted by the weight. I then placed a piece of slate under the box, and tried dropping it on that. The first two attempts weren't successful, but I was determined, so I dropped it a third time. With the final drop, I tried to direct it onto the corner. That did the trick.
I quickly grabbed my camera to take pictures of the aftermath. Notice the water level in the box. There were several small holes in the coating that were spraying water out. It won't save the beer, but it will slow the loss down.
Though it isn't 100% safe from shards of glass puncturing the skin, it does seem to add a measure of protection. I will be doing this to all of my remaining carboys in the near future.
feedbag
Well-Known Member
Great job and thanks for the sacrificial carboy, I would consider this a great success and a way for many people to be able to protect their carboys in the future. This could save a lot of people from trips to the emergency room.
Like me...
After reading your idea, I had to try it out. I will be buying the spray cans to do my remaining carboys, and hopefully I never break another one. But, if I do break one again, I hope I can just stay home and sulk over a broken carboy instead of doing it in the ER.
Thanks for the idea.
lamarguy
Well-Known Member
Obvious man says "Do you know what else could save you a trip to the ER and is not made of glass?".
As I posted on another thread:
lamarguy
Well-Known Member
I understand your plan and it makes sense...The was "obvious man" talking.
Was that one of the voices in your head? Some of the voices in my head say strange things too.
You can get a generic 7 gallon HDPE bucket + lid for less than what you're paying to coat these carboys. I don't understand the appeal. You are losing the transparency, or at least enough of it that that's really no longer an advantage vs. the bucket. There is no worry whatsoever about shards when you drop a bucket, and buckets are more resilient to drops anyway.
And that's only if you're paying for your buckets. I went to the grocery store near my house and the nice ladies at the bakery were more than happy to give me all the food grade buckets they had. So, you can spend $10+ coating each carboy or spend 0-10 upgrading them.
Also, buckets are easier to clean.
Really...I just don't see the appeal of this whatsoever.
And that's only if you're paying for your buckets. I went to the grocery store near my house and the nice ladies at the bakery were more than happy to give me all the food grade buckets they had. So, you can spend $10+ coating each carboy or spend 0-10 upgrading them.
Also, buckets are easier to clean.
Really...I just don't see the appeal of this whatsoever.
Kauai_Kahuna
Well-Known Member
I like my glass carboys and I think this is a great thread, and thank you very much for sacrificing a glass carboy to test the concept.
hexmonkey
Well-Known Member
Isn't it kind of thread-jacking to keep suggesting the most obvious non-solution? Especially when the OP has already said that the point is to make carboys less lethal, not to find a non-breakable fermenter?
If you want to start a glass vs plastic debate, why don't you start a new thread?
lamarguy
Well-Known Member
I think people are entitled to express their opinion on a concept. The OP acknowledges this is a temporary band aid, NOT a solution to the sudden and violent glass breakage problem.
Besides, I think this concludes the glass vs glass debate:
Honestly, I just hope the OP doesn't get sued by someone who tries his technique and still manages to land themselves in the ER when their carboy violently shatters. Most of the injuries have occurred from the bottom falling out during cleaning or transfer (implies a large amount water weight). A thin plastic coating certainly isn't going to hold the bottom on...
I think I will duct tape my carboys. Criss cross the bottoms and up the sides multiple times, then bands around the circumference. Maybe four or five bands would do it and this would still allow you to see inside. It won't guarantee carboy safety, but it seems like it might be good insurance. Some of that Gorilla duct tape might be a durable choice. It's not cheap though and it's going to take quite a bit of the tape. The thought of a severed artery gives me the willies.
Well we managed to get through nearly 70 plus posts before the armchair quarterbacks started chiming in with negative.
That's gotta be some sort of a record.
The "point" of doing this, is to see if it will be beneficial to do it....Just like someone decided to use a turkey fryer, or a gott cooler, or an coil of copper referigerator tubing plunged into boiling wort with cold water running in it, or the stone at the bottom of an aquarium hooked up to a red oxygen bottle.
We don't think twice about any of the above non traditional/non brewing gear...but at some point someone thought out of the box and decided to try it.
It is how new ideas get incorporated into things....New ground gets broken.
There have been countless threads about broken carboys, so if this makes them safer then it's a good thing...there have been threads about how great opaque carboys would be and even using glass paint on them to make them more light tight...so if this helps then that is another niche that this could fill.
So there are enough reasons why this could potentially have merit. And I bet if the op HAD just posted a complete thread with it done...even you nay saysers and can't understand whyers would be sporting a chubby about how great it is....but no...because people actually want to collaborate, to brainstorm you feel the need to pee in our potty?
Why dontcha start a "why plastic dipping won't work on a carboy" thread of your own, instead of taking a dump in here? I don't walk into your home and pee in a corner. Why do you nay sayers feel the need to do it here?
That's gotta be some sort of a record.
The "point" of doing this, is to see if it will be beneficial to do it....Just like someone decided to use a turkey fryer, or a gott cooler, or an coil of copper referigerator tubing plunged into boiling wort with cold water running in it, or the stone at the bottom of an aquarium hooked up to a red oxygen bottle.
We don't think twice about any of the above non traditional/non brewing gear...but at some point someone thought out of the box and decided to try it.
It is how new ideas get incorporated into things....New ground gets broken.
There have been countless threads about broken carboys, so if this makes them safer then it's a good thing...there have been threads about how great opaque carboys would be and even using glass paint on them to make them more light tight...so if this helps then that is another niche that this could fill.
So there are enough reasons why this could potentially have merit. And I bet if the op HAD just posted a complete thread with it done...even you nay saysers and can't understand whyers would be sporting a chubby about how great it is....but no...because people actually want to collaborate, to brainstorm you feel the need to pee in our potty?
Why dontcha start a "why plastic dipping won't work on a carboy" thread of your own, instead of taking a dump in here? I don't walk into your home and pee in a corner. Why do you nay sayers feel the need to do it here?
babalu87
Well-Known Member
Well, I think its fairly simple really
An AH can help but be an AH no matter the situation
I hope I don't get sued either, so I'll add my disclaimer here. Plasti Dip on a glass carboy MAY or MAY NOT prevent injury, so use at your own risk. I tested it because I had the bottom break off while cleaning, as you mentioned, and wound up in the hospital with a severed tendon and nerve. I'm still recuperating, and I'm a little leery of using the equipment I have, so I figured that this may give me a little more reassurance that this incident won't repeat itself. Again, it MAY or MAY NOT prevent me from getting injured again. The thin coating of plastic did hold the majority of glass shards in my test. There were several very small shards that escaped through the holes that resulted from the impact, but the larger pieces remained within the plastic coating. The small shards could cause injury, but it's the large ones that I'm worried about. That's what caused so much damage to my arm.
feedbag
Well-Known Member
AMEN! I haven't been posting on this forum for too long but every time I see Revvy posting he his looking out for the little man! And please no one sue me! I was just trying to come up with some new ideas for adding safety to a glass carboy, it might not be the most practical way but most people love their glass for fermenting and I wanted to help improve on something they already have and love. Please see disclaimer below and forward all further complaints to my law team.
Similar threads
