Trying to eliminate 02

[gotbags-10]

In my quest to make my IPA kegs's hop aroma and flavor last longer I'm really trying to limit as much 02 as possible. I'm getting great flavor and aroma for about a week after I keg then it's all downhill. I've always tried to rack from either a carboy cap or bucket via spigot into a purged keg. But every time my keg disconnect ends up clogging and I inevitably open the bucket lid or carboy and keg lid and use a cane to rack allowing tons of o2 in. So I took the plunge and ordered a conical. I assume that's going to help a lot right out of the gate. My next concern now is when to dry hop. Should I dry hop as primary ferment is winding down while there is still some 02 scrubbing going on from fermentation? Or let if finish out and rack via co2 to kegs with the dry hops in the bottom ?

 

[max384]

The amount of O2 dissolving into solution is minuscule with simply opening up a bucket lid or carboy bung during the transfer process. I hate to be the one to tell you this, but if you're hoping a conical will help you with this, you're sadly mistaken.

Whether you're using a spigot, siphoning from the carboy cap, or using a conical, you'll be introducing oxygen into your system. As the beer is exiting the system, this leaves a vacuum where room air will be pulled into your fermenter, which will have [minimal] contact with the surface of the liquid. You're truly no better off with using these methods as compared with just opening the lid.

There's no way this trivial amount of air will cause your IPA to go "downhill" after just one week.

 

[Jwin]

Tried to just dryhop in the keg?

 

[Transamguy77]

I agree with Max on this one, your problem is not from the small amount of O2 from opening the lid, have you been dry hoping in the keg or just primary? I dry hop only in the keg anymore, I just put my hops in a muslin bag and let them float I know some people use glass marbles to weight them down but I have great flavor and aroma this way so I'm ok with just letting them float.

As for your "downhill" problem can you elaborate a little? Is it just that the flavor and aroma go away significantly? Off flavor shows up?

 

[gotbags-10]

Always have dry hopped in primary. So yeah when I open either my bucket or carboy To rack I get that in your face aroma and like I said for the first couple days/week out of the keg I do as well. Then it's gone. No off flavors just kinda bland or a really low ibu ipa tasting. Funny thing is i had a few beers of an IPA I bottled probably 3 or 4 months ago and cracked one tonight and it had tons of aroma and flavor still. I bottled those straight from primary with conditioning tabs.

 

[user 204491]

The two biggest things I've done in my techniques which impacted the flavor of my IPAs were:

1 - Switch to a sampling syringe instead of a thief for pulling samples and then using a CO2 purging wand immediately after to fill the head space with CO2 again.

2 - Purging the keg head space 15 times @ 30 PSI after filling

 

[gotbags-10]

Purge 15 times?! Deff not doing that. Usually just 3 or 4. Interesting

 

[user 204491]

Yeah, see my post here, and check out @doug293cz dropping some science here.

In addition to purging the keg I'd also strongly encourage you to look at how you are taking samples and if you're purging fermenter headspace after or not.

 

[Transamguy77]

Gotbags it doesn't sound like you are doing anything wrong that would cause the aroma to go away, the next one you keg dry hop it in the keg and see if the flavor and aroma change. Also I leave the dry hops in till the keg is kicked and don't get any grassy notes. Try that and let us know how that goes.

 

[acidrain]

Pressurized transfers and sampling. 'Nuff said.

 

[raysmithtx]

I haven't tried it but a small amount of a Campden tablet is supposed to help get rid of oxygen. It's used in the wine industry for this but apparently hasn't caught on with the homebrewers yet.

 

[kevink]

Whether you're using a spigot, siphoning from the carboy cap, or using a conical, you'll be introducing oxygen into your system. As the beer is exiting the system, this leaves a vacuum where room air will be pulled into your fermenter, which will have [minimal] contact with the surface of the liquid. You're truly no better off with using these methods as compared with just opening the lid.

There's no way this trivial amount of air will cause your IPA to go "downhill" after just one week.

This is why you put slight CO2 pressure on the conical during transferring. It prevents O2 from going in. I do it all the time!

 

[kevink]

gotbags- O2 is definitely your enemy. If you eliminate it at every possible step you will realize a huge benefit. It seems like everyone who says that a little O2 exposure here and there doesn't matter are people who have never tried to completely eliminate it whenever possible. You will be happy with the conical. It makes everything so much easier. Take a look at this thread.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=573127

 

[user 204491]

gotbags- O2 is definitely your enemy. If you eliminate it at every possible step you will realize a huge benefit. It seems like everyone who says that a little O2 exposure here and there doesn't matter are people who have never tried to completely eliminate it whenever possible. You will be happy with the conical. It makes everything so much easier. Take a look at this thread.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/subscription.php

That's a great thread! :smack:

 

[kevink]

haha... oops.

 

[max384]

This is why you put slight CO2 pressure on the conical during transferring. It prevents O2 from going in. I do it all the time!

Good point. However, you can also bathe the fermentation bucket/carboy with CO2 as you're transferring with very similar results... Though I imagine it would be easier with a conical.

 

[tagz]

I think the big question is, does the hop flavor fade or get stale? If you're just loosing the hop flavor, you might just need to use more. If your beer starts tasting like tea/sherry then you should look at oxygen. Can you posting of the recipes that had diminished flavor? (Spellcheck just changed that to feminist flavor.)

 

[max384]

I think the big question is, does the hop flavor fade or get stale? If you're just loosing the hop flavor, you might just need to use more. If your beer starts tasting like tea/sherry then you should look at oxygen. Can you posting of the recipes that had diminished flavor? (Spellcheck just changed that to feminist flavor.)

I imagine that would taste like armpit and patchouli.

 

[DaleP]

A good conical will solve your problem. Fill your keg to the top with sanitizer. Purge the top with CO2. Drain keg by pushing the sanitizer out with CO2. Hook the output valve of conical to output of keg. Use CO2 to push the beer out of conical. Release gas from keg on occasion to make room for beer. Zero O2 addition. The better the conical, the faster the rate of transfer.