Troubleshoot my cider problem

[gentlemansavage]

I am new to cider-making, having just started this past fall, and I have a problem with a recent batch. My limited experience in the field has proven inadequate to the task.

In late October I purchased five gallons of unpasteurized cider from a local orchard that pressed it themselves. I knew I wouldn't be fermenting it for awhile as I had other cider to do first, so I put the five 1-gallon jugs in the freezer. I took them out at the end of February and thawed them by letting them sit out on the counter for a bit and submerging them in buckets of water. The cider had separated out a bit in the jugs (I presume from the freezing) and my SG readings varied between 1.042 and 1.05. Lower than I'd hoped, but still acceptable.

I pitched in Safale S-04 when the juice was at 68F and left the 6.5 gallon carboy sit out for a few days in my basement to get the fermentation before putting it in my temp-controlled fermentation chamber (chest freezer).

Only nothing happened. In fact, there was no action for two weeks. I talked to a brewer friend and he suggested I repitch the yeast after starting it in some of the juice. I took his advice and started the yeast before repitching. The starting definitely happened as I watched a foamy head develop in the small starter vessel.

So I pitched the yeast for a second time. Still no action in the big carboy.

I haven't taken any SG readings since the time of my initial pitching, so it's possible there isn't actually a problem, but that seems unlikely since there has been no visual evidence (from foam in the carboy or bubbles in the airlock) to support fermentation.

What do you think is going on? Any recommendations? I'd hate to lose this juice.

TL;DR: 5-gallon batch of cider isn't fermenting after two pitches of yeast.

 

[user 171019]

Couple of things. You mentioned controlled fermentation - what temperature are you fermenting? The SG looks in line with apple juice unpasteurized - did you treat with camphden tablets to get rid of cooties? You should add a yeast nutrient to the cider at the beginning of fermentation.

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[gentlemansavage]

I haven't put the carboy in my ferm chamber yet - I've just left it at ambient basement temperature, about 66F, until it gets going. I purposely did not treat the juice with anything like campden tabs because I wanted a natural fermentation. Didn't add yeast nutrient either as I've read that it isn't necessary and I want to limit the amount of nitrogen in the juice.

 

[user 171019]

I forgot to add-did you aerate thoroughly.

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[gentlemansavage]

What constitutes "thoroughly?" At most I swirled the giant, heavy carboy a bit.

 

[user 171019]

How about whipping the crap out of it. You know bubble infusion galore. Also, I wouldn't worry about nitrogen in your nutrients. A long lag time with unpasteurized juice is asking for trouble.

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[Randzor]

66 could be to cold also.

 

[oljimmy]

IMHO, 66 is definitely not too cold for S-04, I've had it going in the 50s.

But this does sound very mysterious. Sometimes orchards (without telling people) put preservatives (such as potassium sorbate) in the juice as a preservative, this would explain your lack of action.

However, I have to say, I'm stumped. Your yeast are viable and are sitting in a bath of yeast food, so an educated guess would be that some kind of chemical was introduced at some stage. A batch of mine once took 2 weeks to get going but that's because I had sulfited it fairly heavily at the outset.

 

[Archer]

Why not try raising the temperature 2-3 degrees? (Its quick and easy)

 

[gentlemansavage]

To be clear, it has been over a month since my initial pitching of the yeast. A buddy of mine has one of those long drill bits with aerating blades on it that I'll borrow to introduce some oxygen into the juice. If that doesn't start it up I'll throw in some yeast nutrient. If *that* doesn't work...I don't know. I leave for Scotland in just over a week and I'll be gone for 3 weeks. I suppose I could let it sit.

The temp down there is on the warm side of the entire house being near the furnace and all.

 

[cujocon]

I know this doesn't solve your conundrum, but I'd like to note that when I've use Safale S-04 in juice-based drinks it doesn't ferment well at all. It started for me after a few days and plugged along very slowly before giving up 3 points early.
I'd be interested to see the hydrometer reading...is it possible you have a leak somewhere and it is fermenting slowly and venting somewhere other than the airlock?

 

[Oldchevytruck61]

I looked at buying unpasteurized juice from a local orchard but it was treated with potassium sorbate I was lucky I noticed because it wasn't cheap and it was only mentioned on a tiny spot on the jugs label, so that would be my guess why it's not starting


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[phug]

You can probably try again by calling ahead to the orchard to find out when and if you can get untreated juice from their next pressing



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[gentlemansavage]

I got an aerating drill bit from my buddy last night and set to sanitizing things before giving the carboy a whirl today. I drew out a sample for gravity testing and guess what - dry as a bone. Gravity of 1.000. So somehow this batch totally fermented without showing any action in the airlock, which leads me to believe the seal around the bung was compromised. Can you think of other reasons? Should I be concerned about this cider? It looks fine and tastes fine (if a bit too sour/dry for my liking).

 

[cujocon]

Nice! Drink away and enjoy it