Troubles with corn sugar/invert syrup

[BitterBomz]

I used to brew with extract kits, but I have recently gotten into all grain. I am 6 batches into AG brewing. Along my brewing adventures, I have added invert sugar syrup to my boils. The inversion calls for 8 lbs of table sugar, 2 pints of water and 3 tsps of citric acid. I then use water to dilute the cooled solution to a 1 gallon volume.

I notice when I use this syrup, the finished beer ends up with a significantly "tart" taste, along with occasionally encountering a cidery smell along the fermenting process. I know that the inversion process will help the I have also used straight corn sugar before, and have noticed the same thing.

I'm planning on brewing a triple IPA within the next month. It calls for a very large grain and hop bill, and it would be a shame to run into the same problem with such an expensive recipe. The recipe calls for 24 lbs of grain then 1.5 lbs of corn sugar in the boil, but I'm a little skeptical about using any sugars, although I kind of need them to get the desired ABV and dryness.

Any leads as far as the tart taste that I keep getting? Should I use invert syrup or corn sugar? Is the citric acid too potent of a neutralizer? I don't want this one to come out "reTARTed"

 

[BobBailey]

I use a pound of table sugar with a 12 to 14 lb. grain bill in IPAs without any problem. The small percentage you are using won't be a problem.
If you're really worried about it you could dry the beer out by mashing at 146 for 2 1/2 hours to produce a more fermentable wort.

Bob



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[porto88]

I've made really light beers with 5lbs of grain and 2lbs of sugar with no problems, sometimes I add it right away other times I do a late addition. both work fine, but if you don't have temp control, you might want to try a late addition on the sugar at high kruesen or right as it starts to fall

 

[Yooper]

8 pounds of sugar in a gallon is a lot! You won't have a problem at all with 1.5 pounds of sugar in a triple- that's a small percentage of the fermentables. Using 10% sugar, or even 15%, in a thin dry beer is good.

I don't use sugar very often at all, only in triples and in IIPAs normally, but using it in moderate amounts is a great tool.

 

[BitterBomz]

8 pounds of sugar in a gallon is a lot! You won't have a problem at all with 1.5 pounds of sugar in a triple- that's a small percentage of the fermentables. Using 10% sugar, or even 15%, in a thin dry beer is good.

I don't use sugar very often at all, only in triples and in IIPAs normally, but using it in moderate amounts is a great tool.

Yooper, what I meant was that I make a syrup solution. I don't use the whole gallon in one batch, lol. I make a gallon and depending on the batch, I use anywhere from 1-3 cups of the invert syrup. The remainder of the gallon of the syrup is kept in the fridge for future batches.

I'm still not sure where this tart taste is coming from. My friends and family don't notice it, but if I try my brew side by side with a similar commercial brew, I notice a slightly sour taste...but maybe its just me...

 

[Yooper]

Yooper, what I meant was that I make a syrup solution. I don't use the whole gallon in one batch, lol. I make a gallon and depending on the batch, I use anywhere from 1-3 cups of the invert syrup. The remainder of the gallon of the syrup is kept in the fridge for future batches.

I'm still not sure where this tart taste is coming from. My friends and family don't notice it, but if I try my brew side by side with a similar commercial brew, I notice a slightly sour taste...but maybe its just me...

Oh! I get it now.

Often a "tart" taste can come from young beer (acetaldehyde), or from a too-high fermentation temperature. What kind of fermentation temperatures have you maintained?

 

[BitterBomz]

My fermentation temps range from 68F to 78F. I don't have any means of a continuously-controlled fermenting environment, or a refrigerator for it, so I just keep my carboy in a 10th gallon Igloo ICE CUBE cooler, filled with water. I don't really know any other methods of keeping a stable temperature, other than getting a fridge which I can't afford right now.

Here in southern cali, summers get pretty hot, so keeping the carboy surrounded by water for a few weeks seems to me the best way to maintain a constant temp, along with keeping ants away! In the hottest part of summer, the water surrounding the carboy will hit 76F-ish. Now that its winter, the cold outside temps tend to permeate the walls of my house, keeping it a little cooler.

Any tips or ideas?

 

[Yooper]

M

Any tips or ideas?

Just to keep using the water bath with frozen water bottles, and try your best to keep the water bath at about 64 degrees. If you fill your cooler up to the level of the beer, and use ice in it, it should keep the beer much cooler than 70 degrees.

I'm reasonably certain that your "tart" flavor comes from fermenting more than 10 degrees too warm.

 

[BitterBomz]

Thanks. I'll look into that.

 

[highgravitybacon]

If you want to make a tripel dry, why bother with anything except the cheapest beet or cane sugar possible? Go to Aldis and just get the 98 cent 5 lb bag of sugar.

That is the "belgian way" if I am not mistaken. Beet sugar. Not anything more fancy.

 

[BitterBomz]

If you want to make a tripel dry, why bother with anything except the cheapest beet or cane sugar possible? Go to Aldis and just get the 98 cent 5 lb bag of sugar.

That is the "belgian way" if I am not mistaken. Beet sugar. Not anything more fancy.

The thread says I'll be making a Triple IPA, not a Belgian Tripel. I only have this problem with IPAs.

 

[highgravitybacon]

The thread says I'll be making a Triple IPA, not a Belgian Tripel. I only have this problem with IPAs.

Indeed. My apologies. I had tripels on the brain.