Trouble getting hop flavor

[kegtoe]

Looking for some help maintaining or getting hop flavor in my beers. Typically good aroma and some bitterness put I struggle to keep or get hop flavor.

I just did an IPA that was dry hopped for 12 days with 1 ounce Centennial and 1 ounce Columbus. Tasted really good first couple of days. But hop flavor quickly faded. This happens often to my beers it seems.

 

[JordanKnudson]

Looking for some help maintaining or getting hop flavor in my beers. Typically good aroma and some bitterness put I struggle to keep or get hop flavor.

I just did an IPA that was dry hopped for 12 days with 1 ounce Centennial and 1 ounce Columbus. Tasted really good first couple of days. But hop flavor quickly faded. This happens often to my beers it seems.

How quickly? Hops really are one of the first things to fade. I wouldn't think a few days would be the difference between "tasted really good" and no hop character at all, though.

 

[David_Trucks]

Looking for some help maintaining or getting hop flavor in my beers. Typically good aroma and some bitterness put I struggle to keep or get hop flavor.

I just did an IPA that was dry hopped for 12 days with 1 ounce Centennial and 1 ounce Columbus. Tasted really good first couple of days. But hop flavor quickly faded. This happens often to my beers it seems.

The hop flavor in my IPAs fade after a few weeks and I always get disappointed. I always tell my buddies, "yeah it's good now, but you should've had it a week ago!" I too wonder what I could do differently to get it to last longer. And yet, I do also like how the beer flavors change over time and it continues to develop into a different but still very good beer.

For my latest IPA, I dry hopped it like crazy, hoping this will increase the hop flavor for an additional amount of time.

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

if your looking for longevity in hop flavor you'll need to double or even triple the hops amounts then after dry hopping cold crash as cold as possible to remove the hop solids, it will seem very strong at first but will level out over time, so you can either have it young or for months but not both with hoppy beer

 

[kegtoe]

Yeah typically double most hops...
Flavor is disappointing though.

 

[ricshayne]

Dry hopping is really more for aroma. if you want massive hop flavor look into a massive hop stand/whirlpool

 

[FirstAidBrewing]

You could also look at the sulfate and acid qualities of the wort. Higher sulfates and lower pH will contribute to accentuated hop bitterness/crispness

 

[Smellyglove]

I don't know the batch size but if you dryhopped 2 ounces for 12 days, in a 5 gal batch then there's no wonder there's no hops left.

Typically for a 5gal batch IPA you can add about 4 ounces at ten minutes, 4 ounces at 0/flameout, add a small amount of bittering, and dryhop with 4 ounces or more for no longer than 6 days @ ferm temp, then cool it and package.

 

[kegtoe]

Think I can throw an ounce or two of hops in keg?

 

[stonebrewer]

Think I can throw an ounce or two of hops in keg?

Yes you can but that will contribute more to aroma than flavor. Flavor hops are generally added at 40 to 20 minutes left in the boil. After that, you get a lot more aroma as the oils don't boil off. If you add a lot late, especially cones, you may get a lot of tannin in your beer and grassy notes. You have to play with this to find where it makes your taste buds happy. I like a lot of small, late additions, starting at 30 minutes to flameout. This yields a lot of flavor and aromatics which add to the flavor. Just have to be careful because grassy hoppy beer, to me, is not good.

 

[ArcLight]

Yes you can but that will contribute more to aroma than flavor. Flavor hops are generally added at 40 to 20 minutes left in the boil. After that, you get a lot more aroma as the oils don't boil off
I like a lot of small, late additions, starting at 30 minutes to flameout. This yields a lot of flavor and aromatics which add to the flavor. Just have to be careful because grassy hoppy beer, to me, is not good.

Flavor additions are at around 15 minutes, not 40 minutes. 40 minutes is for bittering. 20 minutes will also add flavor. Beyond 20 minutes the flavor will gradually decline. And you wont get a grassy beer from adding hops at flameout.

To get flavor I use additions at 15 minutes and at flame out. The hop stand will also contribute some aroma if it's not too hot.
I also dry hop IPAs for aroma.

 

[stonebrewer]

Flavor additions are at around 15 minutes, not 40 minutes. 40 minutes is for bittering. 20 minutes will also add flavor.
You wont get a grassy beer from adding hops at flameout.

To get flavor I use additions at 15 minutes and at flame out. The hop stand will also contribute some aroma if it's not too hot.
I also dry hop IPAs for aroma.

I guess you know more about it that my pal John Palmer. In any case late hopping, in the last 30 minutes or less, will contribute to both flavor and aroma. In my experience I get less flavor and more aroma at 15 minutes or less. My beers consistently have a ton of flavor and I do additions at 30 to 15 minutes for flavor, 15-0 for aroma. I also dry hop in the fermenter and will dry hop in the keg to get even more aromatics. YMMV.

 

[ArcLight]

I guess you know more about it that my pal John Palmer. In any case late hopping, in the last 30 minutes or less, will contribute to both flavor and aroma. In my experience I get less flavor and more aroma at 15 minutes or less. My beers consistently have a ton of flavor and I do additions at 30 to 15 minutes for flavor, 15-0 for aroma. I also dry hop in the fermenter and will dry hop in the keg to get even more aromatics. YMMV.

Hops will contribute less and less flavor the longer they are boiled.
Try this 1 gallon experiment - make 2 batches, and with one add the flavor hops at 40 minutes, with the other add them at 15 minutes. Because the 40 minute hop boil will add more bittering than the 15 minute boil, you will have to cut back a little on the 60 minute bittering addition.


You will get hardly any hop aroma (maybe 0) with a 15 minute boil.

A 15 minute boil is used for flavoring hop additions for a reason. It contributes most of its flavor during that time (15 minutes is used as an easy to remember round number. isn't a hard number it can vary, maybe 18 minutes is optimal, maybe 20, but 15 is a good estimate).

If you use a lot of flavor hops at 30 minutes, and no bittering additions, then of course the quantity will make up for the amount of flavor lost.
If a brewer uses 4 ounces of flavor hops at 30 minutes then I'd expect they would get more flavor than someone who uses one ounce at 15 minutes.
It's a curve and hops flavor drops beyond a certain point. In fact, if it didn't you would see more people using no bittering addition, and isntead using more flavor hops at 30-40 minutes.

 

[CBelli]

Dry hopping is really more for aroma. if you want massive hop flavor look into a massive hop stand/whirlpool

Totally agree Ricshayne...
I find 20 minute whirlpool additions once the wort has cooled to 160 degrees yield the best hop flavor.... whirlpool additions at knock out temps of 211 degrees loose too much flavor...

 

[permo]

I am really starting to question the flavor and aroma contributions of late hop additions to the boil. It seems that there are diminishing returns there. I am finding that a 60-90 minute bittering charge followed by a long hopstand once the wort gets down to 180 degrees really helps solidify great hop flavor.

Any kettle hop addition in my opinion, will never even come close to rivaling dry hopping in terms of aroma. So to make a long story short. For hop flavor, I would recommend a very large hop stand addition.

In addition to this, many specialty malts and crystal malts tend to mask hop flavors, so keep your grain bills simple.

 

[Smellyglove]

I've noticed way more flavor since I started doing 10min additions and 45 min hopstands at 140F.

I also believe that dryhopping gives flavor, at least a percieved flavor since nose and mouth is pretty well connected. It gives more of that fresh hops feeling.

 

[kegtoe]

I haven't heard the term hopstand before. Can you elaborate.

 

[stonebrewer]

I haven't heard the term hopstand before. Can you elaborate.

A hop stand is when you add hops POST boil, when the wort is hot, but not boiling. I do this while I am chilling the wort...different folks do it different ways, some chill to say 140F and add hops, let it stand or whirlpool or recirculate. Hop stand time varies from brewer to brewer. I use hop baskets so I will chill, recirculate back to the kettle, through the hop basket and add fresh hops...this is my version, others as I said above do it differently. The basic idea is to put fresh hops into hot wort and extract aromatic oils. As with first wort hopping, there are some on these forums who think this is a bad practice and believe it better to put the hops into the fermenter late into primary fermentation. Still others prefer to dry hop in the keg. Some even use a randall and fill it from time to time with fresh hops and basically filter their beer through it every time they pour a glass.

 

[tagz]

Don't feel to bad. I know more than a handful of breweries that have the same problem.

 

[Owly055]

I whirlpool a LOT, and I add most of my hops at 5 minutes........ 2 ounces of hops is a pathetic amount for what is presumably a 5 gallon brew. If you are going to use these amounts.......... and I have...... Use something like Summit at 60 min for virtually all of your IBUs..... Add the rest at 5 minutes and whirlpool @160 or so. I often use an ounce per gallon or more....... You want hop presence...... use HOPS.

I don't own a counterflow chiller or a pump........ Ultimately I will get a pump and a CFC so I can use a hopback...... Nothing could work better than a hopback...... You hit the hops with nearly boiling wort in an oxygen free environment, and chill with no way for flavor and aroma components to vaporize before they wort chills........

I love hops..... I don't want any of it to get away........


H.W.