Troeg's Mad Elf

[bolus14]

Planning to brew this tomorrow morning, just noticed sugar in the recipe when did you add that? I'm guessing with the honey at 20min but wanted to check and make sure you didn't add it with the cherries in the secondary.

For the cherries, it look like the sweet only come in heavy syrup, is that what you used or were you able to find them in water? The tart seem to only be offered in water from what I can find.

 

[Dog House Brew]

I add the sugar at 10 min before flameout.

 

[bolus14]

Brewed on Saturday, because of weekend schedule I had to brew during the day instead of my normal early morning, RELAXING, brew time. I started my mash around noon, got that to finish right before I had to leave for a kids soccer game, I do BIAB so I let the bag drip while we went to the game. Got home about 1.5hrs later, turned burner on, took pre-boil gravity sample, and took bag down.

Pre-boil SG was 1.072, with 7gal of wort, which is what I needed to finish with 5.25gal based on my boil off and loss of trub calculations. Putting the 1.072 into brewersfriend dilution and boil off calculator showed I should end up at 1.096 almost spot on.

So, 90 min boil no surprises on this topic, started cooling the wort down as normal and got it down to 63 degrees took gravity sample and it only showed 1.082. Knowing this was 10-12 points lower than what it should have been I took another sample... 1.082 again. Both samples had a lot of trub, I emptied both into a jar and put it in the fridge, pitched the yeast since I couldn't do much more at that point to bring it up and walked away for the night.

Next morning, took a reading from the jar of wort I put in the fridge and it showed 1.085 now, not the 10ish points I was looking for but a little higher. At this point I wasn't happy that this was going to end up lower than it should and then I thought, I never changed my recipe to include the 1lb of sugar, so I might end up where I should after all. So, I put everything into brewersfriend to look at the calculations, and by hitting 1.085 and then adding the sugar I should end up at 1.093, almost spot on to the recipes 1.094.

Now I'll give it a week or so to chew through a good portion of the wort and then add the sugar when I add the cherries. Only concern now is hoping the yeast can do their thing and bring this down very close to 1.012ish. Then, get it bottled to allow 3 weeks or so to carbonate and enjoy on Thanksgiving.

 

[bolus14]

Quick question for when bottling times comes and about fermentation times

1. For bottling are you adding something like Champagne yeast or just letting the yeast in suspension do the carbonating? I saw @Poptarts say he used WY1118, wondering if others have done the same.

2. Since Troegs adds the cherries about 50% through fermentation they are either leaving it on the cherries for a long time, moving it to a secondary once fermentation finishes or kegging bottling within 3-4 weeks after fermentation. What are those who have brewed this doing. I Was thinking about adding the cherries about a week into fermentation, leave it on the cherries for 2 weeks and then bottle and let it age in the bottle till Thanksgiving time. This just seems like a quick fermentation/bottling schedule for an 11% beer.

 

[bolus14]

Ok, my fermentation temp started dropping, signalling the yeast were slowing down on fermenting so I decided it might be about time to add the cherries. Run to the store to pick them up to find out they no longer carry them... run to a different store and they only carry them online. So, I pondered ordering online from a couple different places and figured the earliest I would get them would be Mon-Tues, which likely would be fine, or I could use cherry juice if I could find some without any additives.

Found these, which both labels showed they only contained 100% cherry juice:
http://www.rwknudsenfamily.com/products/single-fruit-juices/just-black-cherry
http://www.rwknudsenfamily.com/products/single-fruit-juices/just-tart-cherry

Did a quick search and found a few posts about people using these in other beers in place of cherries so I ran with it. Poured both bottles in last night and noticed fermentation temps went up 3 degrees overnight. @Poptarts said his recommendation would be to go with 3 cans of each type of cherry and after some research I found that each bottle should be equivalent to 3 lbs of cherries, so it should be about the same addition as 6 cans would have been.

I did forget the sugar so I'll likely boil the 1lb of sugar with a small amount of water, cool and throw that it tonight or tomorrow morning. I also tried to grab a hydro sample to figure out how far along it is, but got more krausen than anything and didn't want to keep fussing with it.

As for vigorous fermentation, this yeast (WY3463) has yet to exhibit that for me. In the Wit's, Tripel, and now this that I have used it on the most I have gotten is with this beer, but so far that's only about 1.5-2in of krausen. Seems to do it's thing pretty quickly and quietly compared to many other Belgian strains.

 

[Tommydee]

finally making this tomorrow, about 2 months later than I wanted. Wife and I just tried a bottle of the real deal, and decided it will be a Valentines beer!

I am doing version 1 recipe BIAB at 152 with version 2 hop adds because I was too rushed and didn't read the whole thread when I ordered my grain! Using Omega Belgian W yeast (westmalle), currently spinning in a 1.8 L Starter. 2 lbs honey, 2 cans tart Oregon cherries, and 2 frozen bags of sweet cherries (12 oz per bag), cause I didn't want to mess with the syrup that comes in the Oregon sweet cherry can.

I am going to pitch this at 65, let it free rise to 72 and control it there.

Debating to just dump cherries into primary on day 10-14ish, but will probably rack to secondary instead. Any advice for those of you who just followed Troegs advice, and added cherries to primary? If I cold crash, can I transfer straight from primary to keg without a giant trubby/yeast/cherry mess?

I noticed my 2 bottles from Troegs did not appear to have any yeast cake, and I'm not a great bottler (quit after batch #5) so I'll just keg this to be safe.

Any tips would be great, wish me luck!

 

[Tommydee]

Ok, my fermentation temp started dropping, signalling the yeast were slowing down on fermenting so I decided it might be about time to add the cherries. Run to the store to pick them up to find out they no longer carry them... run to a different store and they only carry them online. So, I pondered ordering online from a couple different places and figured the earliest I would get them would be Mon-Tues, which likely would be fine, or I could use cherry juice if I could find some without any additives.

Found these, which both labels showed they only contained 100% cherry juice:
http://www.rwknudsenfamily.com/products/single-fruit-juices/just-black-cherry
http://www.rwknudsenfamily.com/products/single-fruit-juices/just-tart-cherry

Did a quick search and found a few posts about people using these in other beers in place of cherries so I ran with it. Poured both bottles in last night and noticed fermentation temps went up 3 degrees overnight. @Poptarts said his recommendation would be to go with 3 cans of each type of cherry and after some research I found that each bottle should be equivalent to 3 lbs of cherries, so it should be about the same addition as 6 cans would have been.

I did forget the sugar so I'll likely boil the 1lb of sugar with a small amount of water, cool and throw that it tonight or tomorrow morning. I also tried to grab a hydro sample to figure out how far along it is, but got more krausen than anything and didn't want to keep fussing with it.

As for vigorous fermentation, this yeast (WY3463) has yet to exhibit that for me. In the Wit's, Tripel, and now this that I have used it on the most I have gotten is with this beer, but so far that's only about 1.5-2in of krausen. Seems to do it's thing pretty quickly and quietly compared to many other Belgian strains.

How did this turn out?

 

[bolus14]

I'm liking it. I haven't had Mad Elf in a few years so I can't honestly say how close it is to the real thing. The last couple I've tried taste like the cherry is coming out a little more. Not much alcohol heat, the 10.8% can certainly sneak up quickly.

 

[Lefou]

The first time a few cases of this showed up at a local store I had to laugh.
The elf reminded me of a soused Alfred E. Neuman.
The beer hit shelves near me soon after Octoberfest and was sold out long before Thanksgiving. Some people probably got some as a prank and got more than they bargained for.

 

[Dog House Brew]

I wish it were around me. Always wanted to try it.

 

[bolus14]

It seems to last longer in my area than it does in others. I might still be able to find a 6'er. I might go looking tomorrow and if any is available will pick some up.
As for the recipe, I am thinking that next time I might throw a little bit of Special B in...

 

[Tommydee]

Well, I got fancy and tried to Sparge my BIAB exactly to preboil gravity, and Somehow, I ended up at 1.090. Good news is that after 7 days at 72 F, she’s tasting and looking good. Yeast really tore through it, Seems finished at 1.014. Tasting awesome so far. Tempted to rack on cherries, but I think I’ll let it sit another 7 days to be safe.

 

[Tommydee]

Time to brew again. Last years version was a crowd favorite, and catalyst of some great winter fun when that ABV kicks in! I'm considering modifying the version 2.0 recipe with light candi sugar in place of table sugar, and use the honey as normal. Also using frozen cherries I bought fresh and pitted a month ago. I might target 1090, as I liked this strength better than the original. Anyone else brewing this?

 

[Lefou]

Brew it?
No, going to buy it this year.

A couple places around here usually stock a few cases. The plan is to snatch a couple sixpacks and hoard them before most of it disappears.

 

[bucketnative]

I bottled my version of it, with a few tweaks, back in June. I scaled back the grist a bit and left out the added sugar to knock the ABV back to about 8 %. I bottled it with honey as priming sugar to try to retain a bit more flavor from that. I have tested it at 2 and 3 months in the bottle, and it has been really good. I have 12 bombers of it sitting in my parents' cellar for Christmas time. I'll also pick up some Mad Elf for a comparison.

 

[Tommydee]

That time of year again. Brewing 3rd annual mad elf clone(ish), but starting to tweak to my preferences. Using Omega Belgian W, and throwing in a little special B because I like that flavor. Also going all Saaz, cuz that’s what I got. Pitted some good looking cherries from wegmans last month and froze, will “top up” with Oregon sour cherries to get to 4.5 lb. No sugar, just malt, honey, and cherries. Adding the 2 lb of local NJ honey at day 3 of fermentation, that worked well last time. Mashing low (147) to keep it dry. Last years batch was a huge hit. With honey included, aiming for 1.100 OG.

 

[Lefou]

I usually wait until the first frost hits to do some brewing. Just got two packs of WLP802 and two packs of WLP820 for the fall.
That said, I have some commercial Mad Elf from last year still floating about and a $50 gift card burning a hole in my pocket waiting for the German festbiers to hit the shelves.
We picked a whole bunch of cherries in June from the trees down in Washington Township. The orchard is not far from the high school. The trees were loaded, so thick with fruit you could simply reach up and get a handful at once.
Good luck with your fruit beer.

 

[Dann0]

Brewing this tonight. Does anyone have any comments on fermentation temp? should I aim for the low end of the 3787 range and shoot for 64, or do I want to let it ride higher into the low 70s to develop some esters?

 

[bethshef]

I've brewed this (extract version) many times and ferment at room temp which is about 72ish. It tastes spot on. Which make me think, maybe I should get a batch going soon for Christmas. May have waited too late.

 

[Dann0]

I've brewed this (extract version) many times and ferment at room temp which is about 72ish. It tastes spot on. Which make me think, maybe I should get a batch going soon for Christmas. May have waited too late.

Yeah, I'm a bit late too, but it sounded good. I've actually never tasted this beer, but it sounds popular so I'm going for it!

 

[bethshef]

If you follow the recipe it will be nearly identical. If you leave the cherries out, it is the clone of Naked Elf. Try to find some at Christmas and do a side by side. I'm going to get an order together and make a batch next weekend. It is good all year in my opinion.

 

[imasickboy]

Naked Elf doesn't have the cherries, the honey, or the chocolate malt. Also, they brought it out a couple months ago, so don't expect to see it again until next summer.

 

[Dann0]

If you follow the recipe it will be nearly identical. If you leave the cherries out, it is the clone of Naked Elf. Try to find some at Christmas and do a side by side. I'm going to get an order together and make a batch next weekend. It is good all year in my opinion.

I'm excited to taste it. It's fermenting now at 68 degrees, and I'm getting ready to add my cherries tonight. This one is pretty feisty! with 2 gallons of headspace and keeping it at 68 she's still blowing out the tube. I don't even know if I can get it in Michigan

 

[bethshef]

I don’t add the cherries until the secondary. I suppose it might be fine in primary but you might lose flavors in the blow off. Anyhow, I use 2 cans sweet cherries and 2cans of sour. Oregon brand. Not pie filling. I leave about 10 days in secondary.

 

[Dann0]

I don’t add the cherries until the secondary. I suppose it might be fine in primary but you might lose flavors in the blow off. Anyhow, I use 2 cans sweet cherries and 2cans of sour. Oregon brand. Not pie filling. I leave about 10 days in secondary.

Ok. I used the recipe linked a few pages back that included email conversations with the guys at Troeg's in the notes. I thought I read that they add the cherries about halfway through primary, which I assumed was halfway to final gravity. I was planning to add them tonight.

I'm hoping that my blowoff has settled down, as I do have the ability to hold temp and typically that keeps the blowoff under control. This is the first yeast I've used since getting temp control that has still blown off, but I guess to be fair I was fermenting cleaner before down around 58-64 degrees.

 

[bethshef]

You have a lot of sugar going and 3787 is a monster. I’m sure the cherries will be fine in primary or secondary. I added them to a carboy one time and had an awful time getting them out.

 

[Dann0]

You have a lot of sugar going and 3787 is a monster. I’m sure the cherries will be fine in primary or secondary. I added them to a carboy one time and had an awful time getting them out.

That I can believe. We upgraded to a Spike conical recently, so no more battling buckets and carboys.

 

[teachtim]

I have brewed a version of this 5-10 times and lost my recipe. After reading this thread I did an extra search and it turns out Troegs shared a recipe on BYO.

(5 gallons/19 L, all-grain)
OG = 1.092 FG = 1.015
IBU = 13 SRM = 17 ABV = 11%

Ingredients
12.5 lbs. (5.67 kg) Pilsner malt
2.63 lbs. (1.19 kg) Munich malt (8-10 °L)
0.75 lb. (0.34 kg) dark Munich malt (20 °L)
0.31 lb. (0.14 kg) caramel malt (80 °L)
0.13 lb. (0.06 kg) chocolate malt
0.31 lb. (0.14 kg) Special B malt
1 lb. (0.45 kg) cane sugar (sucrose) (0 min.)
0.25 lb. (11 g) (0.11 kg) honey (0 min.)
1.25 lbs. (0.57 kg) tart cherry puree
0.9 lb. (0.41 kg) sweet cherry puree
2.7 AAU Galena hops (90 min.) (0.2 oz./6 g at 13.6% alpha acids)
2.3 AAU Hersbrucker hops (10 min.) (0.5 oz./6 g at 4.6% alpha acids)
White Labs WLP530 (Abbey Ale) or Wyeast 3787 (Trappist Style High Gravity) or LalBrew Abbaye yeast
3⁄4 cup corn sugar (if priming)

Step by Step
Using 1.3 qts. per pound of grain, mash in at 146 °F (63 °C), rest for 10 minutes, then raise temperature to 152 °F (67 °C) and hold for 40 minutes. Increase temperature to 162 °F (72 °C) for final 10 minutes. Recirculate about 10 minutes to set the grain bed then sparge and collect 7 gallons (26 L).

Boil 90 minutes, adding the hops per the instructions. Add the cane sugar and honey at knockout, stirring well to dissolve. Chill rapidly to 65 °F (18 °C), pitch plenty of yeast (at least two packs with a starter), and oxygenate thoroughly. After 24 hours of fermentation, add the cherry purees. After 12–14 days, drop the beer about 6 °F (3 °C) per day for four days to help the beer clear. Rack the beer into a keg and force carbonate to 2.7 volumes, or prime and bottle condition.

If bottle conditioning, leave the beer at 70–75 °F (21–24 °C) for at least two weeks.

Tröegs Brewing Co.’s Mad Elf clone
(5 gallons/19 L, extract with grains)
OG = 1.092 FG = 1.015
IBU = 13 SRM = 17 ABV = 11%
Ingredients
7 lbs. (3.2 kg) Briess Pilsen dried malt extract
1.5 lbs. (0.68 kg) Munich or Vienna dried malt extract
0.75 lb. (0.34 kg) dark Munich malt (20 °L)
0.31 lb. (0.14 kg) caramel malt (80 °L)
0.13 lb. (0.06 kg) chocolate malt
0.31 lb. (0.14 kg) Special B malt
1 lb. (0.45 kg) cane sugar (sucrose) (0 min.)
0.25 lb. (11 g) (0.11 kg) honey (0 min.)
1.25 lbs. (0.57 kg) tart cherry puree
0.9 lb. (0.41 kg) sweet cherry puree
2.7 AAU Galena hops (90 min.) (0.2 oz./6 g at 13.6% alpha acids)
2.3 AAU Hersbrucker hops (10 min.) (0.5 oz./6 g at 4.6% alpha acids)
White Labs WLP530 (Abbey Ale) or Wyeast 3787 (Trappist Style High Gravity) or LalBrew Abbaye yeast
3⁄4 cup corn sugar (if priming)
Step by Step
Using a 5-gallon (19-L) kettle, start by steeping all the specialty grains (placed in a muslin bag) in about 2 gallons (7.5 L) of water at 152 °F (67 °C) for 15 minutes. Remove grain bag then add water bringing total volume in kettle to about 4 gallons (15 L). Bring liquid to or near a boil. Turn off the flame and slowly add half of the malt extract, stirring to avoid clumping or scorching. Adding just half of the extract maximizes hop isomerization. Turn flame back on and bring to boil. With 15 minutes left in the boil, add the remaining malt extract.
Follow the remainder of the all-grain recipe for boil, fermenting, and packaging instructions. After chilling the beer, but before pitching your yeast, remember to top up with water to 5 gallons (19 L).

 

[teachtim]

The odd thing about the BYO recipe is the hops are not what I used before nor are they listed on the bottle. Any thoughts on why they would list different hops?

 

[BrewingAroundtheRrealm]

I wonder when that BYO recipe is from? Looking at their website now: Mad Elf Ale they have removed any reference to hops from the page.

The 2018 version of that page: Mad Elf Ale Which is what I based my recipe on, states Hallertau and Saaz. Honestly, any addition for 15 IBU's will work here. I've been using Sterling the last few years with out issue.

The grain bill on that is also very suspect. They make no mention of crystal ever. The oldest mention of ingredients from March 2003: the Mad Elf only shows Pils, Munich, Chocolate which is the same as today.

Not to say that the BYO recipe isn't accurate. Just over complicated for what Mad Elf is.