American IPA Trilium Melcher Street Clone

[degivens]

For the transfer, using a plastic siphon is totally fine. The important part is using CO2 to move the beer and minimizing any oxygen ingress in general.

Dry hopping for me is typically 36-48hrs post-pitch, I haven't been "double dry hopping" very often, but it's totally reasonable to add an additional dry-hop in the purged keg you ultimately transfer. With that, you may not want to do it unless you've either cut your dip tube a bit shorter or are using a floating dip tube like the clear beer draught system (i'm a big fan of this option). Some people have reported some vegetal taste from keg hopping, I personally haven't gotten that -- but something to be aware of. Might be something to test after you get through batch 1 so you minimize the points at which something could go wrong!

 

[meylo]

I added your recipe to Beersmith and am working on a starter now.

By chance can I see your beersmith file for this?

 

[paarman]

For the transfer, using a plastic siphon is totally fine. The important part is using CO2 to move the beer and minimizing any oxygen ingress in general.

Dry hopping for me is typically 36-48hrs post-pitch, I haven't been "double dry hopping" very often, but it's totally reasonable to add an additional dry-hop in the purged keg you ultimately transfer. With that, you may not want to do it unless you've either cut your dip tube a bit shorter or are using a floating dip tube like the clear beer draught system (i'm a big fan of this option). Some people have reported some vegetal taste from keg hopping, I personally haven't gotten that -- but something to be aware of. Might be something to test after you get through batch 1 so you minimize the points at which something could go wrong!

I have a stainless 300 micron mesh tube I was thinking of attaching fishing line to, to be able to pull back out after a few days.. think I would run into any issues with that? I was thinking 2-3oz.

Have any ideas by chance on that OG conundrum?

Thanks for the reply and advice!

 

[degivens]

I have a stainless 300 micron mesh tube I was thinking of attaching fishing line to, to be able to pull back out after a few days.. think I would run into any issues with that? I was thinking 2-3oz.

Have any ideas by chance on that OG conundrum?

Thanks for the reply and advice!

As long as you’re blasting everything with CO2 during the addition / removal I would think it’d be fairly safe.

One thing with the filters as opposed to just throwing the hops in is that you’ll get much less efficiency in terms of hop character from the mesh screen. The surface area of the hops in contact with actual liquid is substantially dimensioned because the hops tend to agglomerate in the screen.

As far as the OG — that just seems weird. Wish I could offer any help but i’m not quite sure to be honest.

 

[paarman]

As long as you’re blasting everything with CO2 during the addition / removal I would think it’d be fairly safe.

One thing with the filters as opposed to just throwing the hops in is that you’ll get much less efficiency in terms of hop character from the mesh screen. The surface area of the hops in contact with actual liquid is substantially dimensioned because the hops tend to agglomerate in the screen.

As far as the OG — that just seems weird. Wish I could offer any help but i’m not quite sure to be honest.

Makes sense. I was thinking of laying the keg on it's side to give it more surface area. Haven't fully decided yet, but I'll think on it for a couple days.

I ordered a new carboy cap that will ideally fit my 6.5 gal fermenter this time. I just bought 2 last week, unknowing they don't fit all-fits my 5gal just fine, but I guess I have an older style 6.5 so I'm hoping this other cap fits it to do the closed transfer this weekend.

 

[paarman]

So what does everyone carb to on NE IPAs? 2.2?

 

[degivens]

So what does everyone carb to on NE IPAs? 2.2?

2.1-2.2 is sort of my default. I think of anything lower carb is ideal for these, generally speaking.

 

[tld6008]

So what does everyone carb to on NE IPAs? 2.2?

After transfer to keg I set it at 24 psi for 48 hrs (temp is 40 degrees) then dial down to 12-14 psi and leave it.

 

[paarman]

Well I kegged the beer yesterday, ran into some issues when doing so. Here is my update so far.

• Brewed beer on 5-19 (OG was 1.056, but I don't know if this was right. I started at 1.058 post-mash, 8.25 gallons.. Ended with 6.75. Still confused on this is possible).
• Dry hopped 8oz of hops on 5-22 (Day 3, gravity was 1.022)
• Transferred 5 gallons to keg 5-29 (Day 10, gravity was 1.014). Also had about a gallon leftover, bottled 2x12, 2x16, 1x22 bottles.

The first issue I ran into was that I was going to dry hop 2.5oz more inside the keg for 3 days. I had purchased a 300 micron mesh tube keg hopper, loaded up the hops, dropped it in about halfway via fishing line. Well, the keg top wouldn't seal with the line. Retried a couple more times after depressurizing, trying a different seal, nothing. Wouldn't seal up with that line sticking out. So I cut the line, and dropped the hopper into the keg and decided if I get off, grassy flavors.. So be it. I have nothing else to use those hops for planned, and I had already opened them. So it was either toss the hops and scratch the hopping altogether, or leave it in. I've read quite a bit both ways, were some people can taste grassy notes, others have had no issues leaving the hops in for a couple months. I plan on the keg going fast enough, that I am hoping it wont be an issue.

Next, this is what I was hoping to be able to do after ordering parts:


I believe I had everything setup correctly, but when the beer started to transfer it appeared to stop at the liquid in post, and I am wondering if it got clogged. I have never done a closed transfer, and my worry was about pressurizing the carboy (glass) too much. I didn't want any unneeded mishaps. I tried disconnecting, sanitizing, reconnecting. Nothing seemed to get the beer to transfer into the keg. So I went with plan B, against everything I didn't want, which was opening up the keg lid and siphoning in. This at least let me see where to kill the transfer, since I knew I had more than 5 gallons fermenting. However, I don't know about the oxygen exposure. I'm still upset about this, and I hope it didn't kill the batch. I took a sample prior to this and the beer tastes and looks fantastic.

Trying to remain positive about the mishaps, but we will see. My plan is to let the beer sit at room temp on that 2nd dry hop for 2-3 days, chill the keg for 24 hours on 6/1 or 6/2, on 6/3 carb to 30psi for a day, then set to serving psi (8psi probably) for a few days and try it. Wish me the best, I have had a fair share of hiccups thus far haha.

 

[jpLV]

Sounds like you are going through what we all did when we started brewing this style of IPA. Ive heard mixed results with the fishing line not allowing the keg to seal. I think floss works better but I cant say for sure as I've never tried it. I'd look at it as an experiment to see how you like just leaving the hops in as everyones flavor preference varies.

For the closed transfer flow issue. It seems like you did have a clog somewhere, either dip tube or at the post like you said. With so much dry hop floating around it can be super tough to not run into issues. I've went with a mesh tube that goes over the dip tube and haven't run into a clog since. It might be a little slower because the hops will eventually start impacting the flow but it only adds a couple extra minutes. I now use it for all my beers as the peace of mind is worth it.

Sounds like you planned everything out well. You'll have to let us know how it tastes!

 

[Hannabrew]

Well I kegged the beer yesterday, ran into some issues when doing so. Here is my update so far.

• Brewed beer on 5-19 (OG was 1.056, but I don't know if this was right. I started at 1.058 post-mash, 8.25 gallons.. Ended with 6.75. Still confused on this is possible).
• Dry hopped 8oz of hops on 5-22 (Day 3, gravity was 1.022)
• Transferred 5 gallons to keg 5-29 (Day 10, gravity was 1.014). Also had about a gallon leftover, bottled 2x12, 2x16, 1x22 bottles.

The first issue I ran into was that I was going to dry hop 2.5oz more inside the keg for 3 days. I had purchased a 300 micron mesh tube keg hopper, loaded up the hops, dropped it in about halfway via fishing line. Well, the keg top wouldn't seal with the line. Retried a couple more times after depressurizing, trying a different seal, nothing. Wouldn't seal up with that line sticking out. So I cut the line, and dropped the hopper into the keg and decided if I get off, grassy flavors.. So be it. I have nothing else to use those hops for planned, and I had already opened them. So it was either toss the hops and scratch the hopping altogether, or leave it in. I've read quite a bit both ways, were some people can taste grassy notes, others have had no issues leaving the hops in for a couple months. I plan on the keg going fast enough, that I am hoping it wont be an issue.

Next, this is what I was hoping to be able to do after ordering parts:


I believe I had everything setup correctly, but when the beer started to transfer it appeared to stop at the liquid in post, and I am wondering if it got clogged. I have never done a closed transfer, and my worry was about pressurizing the carboy (glass) too much. I didn't want any unneeded mishaps. I tried disconnecting, sanitizing, reconnecting. Nothing seemed to get the beer to transfer into the keg. So I went with plan B, against everything I didn't want, which was opening up the keg lid and siphoning in. This at least let me see where to kill the transfer, since I knew I had more than 5 gallons fermenting. However, I don't know about the oxygen exposure. I'm still upset about this, and I hope it didn't kill the batch. I took a sample prior to this and the beer tastes and looks fantastic.

Trying to remain positive about the mishaps, but we will see. My plan is to let the beer sit at room temp on that 2nd dry hop for 2-3 days, chill the keg for 24 hours on 6/1 or 6/2, on 6/3 carb to 30psi for a day, then set to serving psi (8psi probably) for a few days and try it. Wish me the best, I have had a fair share of hiccups thus far haha.

Drink it fast

 

[paarman]

Sounds like you are going through what we all did when we started brewing this style of IPA. Ive heard mixed results with the fishing line not allowing the keg to seal. I think floss works better but I cant say for sure as I've never tried it. I'd look at it as an experiment to see how you like just leaving the hops in as everyones flavor preference varies.

For the closed transfer flow issue. It seems like you did have a clog somewhere, either dip tube or at the post like you said. With so much dry hop floating around it can be super tough to not run into issues. I've went with a mesh tube that goes over the dip tube and haven't run into a clog since. It might be a little slower because the hops will eventually start impacting the flow but it only adds a couple extra minutes. I now use it for all my beers as the peace of mind is worth it.

Sounds like you planned everything out well. You'll have to let us know how it tastes!

I forgot to mention the reason I backed off the closed transfer is I read not to exceed 5psi on glass carboys.. To prevent creating a glass shrapnel bomb haha. So I got a bit nervous on just how much pressure was building up and decided it was safer, and easier at that point, to do the open transfer-despite the oxidation.

I brewed two NE IPAs last year (didn't have my kegging setup complete), so I bottled both. Used Conan yeast for both. First one was a bit overcarbed, but tasted fine for a short while. 2nd one dropped off fast in color and flavor. So far I have preferred the taste of LA3 to Conan just based off my gravity pulls... This beer has a lot of grapefruit, peach notes. Just a juice bomb, which is what I love. Granted, this is a different recipe and I also changed my method a little along with the yeast, but as of last night, I liked it much better. I was hoping to circumvent the oxidation issues of last year with kegging, but it appears I will need to give this another couple rounds of trial and error. I may need to look into your method to see if that helps.

I have also read about the methods for avoiding clogging in the keg, seems the clear beer floating dip tube may be in my future. I had put a decent amount of money into completing the keg setup as well as a bunch of odds and ends to make brew days easier, so I just didn't want to invest the extra scratch for this batch. But I'll look into it for the next one, which I hope to do in a month or so (translation=I am going to crush this keg). Also, I was going to try some floss right then and there, but all I could find in the house was mint flavored.. I opted out of that introduction of potential off-flavor

 

[paarman]

Oh, and here are the visuals.

Day 3:

Day 10 (different lighting, also night time).

 

[jpLV]

Beer looks good. I recently got the clear beer system for my kegs and they have worked out nice. I also got the mesh with them so I could do a second dry hop in the keg and not have to worry about bags or hoppers.

For the closed transfers you really only need a few psi to get things moving so like you said if its not I wouldn't try forcing it with more pressure. I still use PET carboys so I always make sure they have a little give on them. I also don't clamp down on the topper as I figure if something goes weird with the regulator the top would hopefully just pop off. Having to crush this keg so you can brew it again to refine your process isn't the worst thing in the world either.

 

[tld6008]

Well I kegged the beer yesterday, ran into some issues when doing so. Here is my update so far.

• Brewed beer on 5-19 (OG was 1.056, but I don't know if this was right. I started at 1.058 post-mash, 8.25 gallons.. Ended with 6.75. Still confused on this is possible).
• Dry hopped 8oz of hops on 5-22 (Day 3, gravity was 1.022)
• Transferred 5 gallons to keg 5-29 (Day 10, gravity was 1.014). Also had about a gallon leftover, bottled 2x12, 2x16, 1x22 bottles.

The first issue I ran into was that I was going to dry hop 2.5oz more inside the keg for 3 days. I had purchased a 300 micron mesh tube keg hopper, loaded up the hops, dropped it in about halfway via fishing line. Well, the keg top wouldn't seal with the line. Retried a couple more times after depressurizing, trying a different seal, nothing. Wouldn't seal up with that line sticking out. So I cut the line, and dropped the hopper into the keg and decided if I get off, grassy flavors.. So be it. I have nothing else to use those hops for planned, and I had already opened them. So it was either toss the hops and scratch the hopping altogether, or leave it in. I've read quite a bit both ways, were some people can taste grassy notes, others have had no issues leaving the hops in for a couple months. I plan on the keg going fast enough, that I am hoping it wont be an issue.

Next, this is what I was hoping to be able to do after ordering parts:


I believe I had everything setup correctly, but when the beer started to transfer it appeared to stop at the liquid in post, and I am wondering if it got clogged. I have never done a closed transfer, and my worry was about pressurizing the carboy (glass) too much. I didn't want any unneeded mishaps. I tried disconnecting, sanitizing, reconnecting. Nothing seemed to get the beer to transfer into the keg. So I went with plan B, against everything I didn't want, which was opening up the keg lid and siphoning in. This at least let me see where to kill the transfer, since I knew I had more than 5 gallons fermenting. However, I don't know about the oxygen exposure. I'm still upset about this, and I hope it didn't kill the batch. I took a sample prior to this and the beer tastes and looks fantastic.

Trying to remain positive about the mishaps, but we will see. My plan is to let the beer sit at room temp on that 2nd dry hop for 2-3 days, chill the keg for 24 hours on 6/1 or 6/2, on 6/3 carb to 30psi for a day, then set to serving psi (8psi probably) for a few days and try it. Wish me the best, I have had a fair share of hiccups thus far haha.

I do something very similar but just put a hose from the racking cane into the keg through the top opening. I purge the keg first by pushing out 5 gal of startsan with Co2. Open the top and put the purged hose in (it reaches the bottom) the set the cover over the open hole. 2-3 psi get the beer flowing. I doubt very much that you could break a carboy with a press fit carboy cap on. I have blown mine off before when crimping the discharge (keg)hose trying to fill some bottles after the keg filled. I have not had any noticeable oxidation issues doing it like this. As the beer fills the purged keg the gas is being pushed out and there would be very little O2 from just opening the top. You might not have had enough pressure to start the flow or your relief valve wasn't open. Try it again with water or starsan and figure it out.

 

[paarman]

I do something very similar but just put a hose from the racking cane into the keg through the top opening. I purge the keg first by pushing out 5 gal of startsan with Co2. Open the top and put the purged hose in (it reaches the bottom) the set the cover over the open hole. 2-3 psi get the beer flowing. I doubt very much that you could break a carboy with a press fit carboy cap on. I have blown mine off before when crimping the discharge (keg)hose trying to fill some bottles after the keg filled. I have not had any noticeable oxidation issues doing it like this. As the beer fills the purged keg the gas is being pushed out and there would be very little O2 from just opening the top. You might not have had enough pressure to start the flow or your relief valve wasn't open. Try it again with water or starsan and figure it out.

That I didn't do. I did fill the keg with star san, ran it through, purged it, filled it with co2 and purged again and left it closed. Before I did the transfer I released the pressure inside, but I didn't unscrew the relief valve or anything.. Could that have been it? I was pushing with around 3psi, I did go up to 5 once it wasn't moving, but that's when I stopped.

Once the keg is cashed, I'll definitely spend some time trying again. I'd be happy if it was as simple as needing to unscrew the relief valve.

 

[jpLV]

That I didn't do. I did fill the keg with star san, ran it through, purged it, filled it with co2 and purged again and left it closed. Before I did the transfer I released the pressure inside, but I didn't unscrew the relief valve or anything.. Could that have been it? I was pushing with around 3psi, I did go up to 5 once it wasn't moving, but that's when I stopped.

Once the keg is cashed, I'll definitely spend some time trying again. I'd be happy if it was as simple as needing to unscrew the relief valve.

Bet thats what it was. I've had that happen to me when I was relieving the pressure as it transferred and forgot as I was messing with something else. If you dont let out the pressure or just leave it unscrewed it wont flow.

 

[BeerFst]

That I didn't do. I did fill the keg with star san, ran it through, purged it, filled it with co2 and purged again and left it closed. Before I did the transfer I released the pressure inside, but I didn't unscrew the relief valve or anything.. Could that have been it? I was pushing with around 3psi, I did go up to 5 once it wasn't moving, but that's when I stopped.

Once the keg is cashed, I'll definitely spend some time trying again. I'd be happy if it was as simple as needing to unscrew the relief valve.

Bingo on the poppet, it has to stay open for the co2 to come out so the beer can go in. Remember holding the top of a straw in a glass of soda when you were a kid? You basically did just that. You don’t have to unscrew it though just pull up, turn 90 degrees so that the little ring sits on the edges

 

[paarman]

I'm both happy it was something simple I overlooked, and kicking myself in the ass at the same time. Ah well. No use in getting hung up on it now, but should have thought of that. Thank you for pointing that out tld6008!

 

[Hannabrew]

If you have the option, run a gas jumper as well and then you don't have to worry about it as the co2 in the SV will replace the beer in the FB as it transfers. Works like a charm

 

[tld6008]

If you have the option, run a gas jumper as well and then you don't have to worry about it as the co2 in the SV will replace the beer in the FB as it transfers. Works like a charm

Trying to understand this, what is SV and FB?

 

[paarman]

Trying to understand this, what is SV and FB?

I think Serving Vessel and Fermentation Barrel... The acronyms probably aren't right, but I think I get the idea at least

I'll wait for confirmation though, as I am not certain myself.

 

[stickyfinger]

Trying to understand this, what is SV and FB?

SV is serving vessel and [sic] FB is fermentation vessel (FV) hook up a quick disconnect with tubing on it from the gas out post of your receiving keg and then hook the other end up to the gas in post on your fermenting keg or just put the tubing into your caboy if you rack from a carboy, etc. in effect you will be transferring the pressurized CO2 from the serving vessel back into the fermentation vessel so there is not a pressure differential between them. it is a great way to transfer from one keg to another completely closed.

 

[tld6008]

SV is serving vessel and [sic] FB is fermentation vessel (FV) hook up a quick disconnect with tubing on it from the gas out post of your receiving keg and then hook the other end up to the gas in post on your fermenting keg or just put the tubing into your caboy if you rack from a carboy, etc. in effect you will be transferring the pressurized CO2 from the serving vessel back into the fermentation vessel so there is not a pressure differential between them. it is a great way to transfer from one keg to another completely closed.

Doesn't make sense to me. You need to have greater pressure on top of the beer in the Carboy (fermentor) to push the beer out through the racking cane, the keg receiving the beer needs to have a means to release the pressure building up as beer fills the keg or nothing will move. Usually this pressure would vent to atmosphere through the open top or opened relief valve. If this pressure were piped back into the carboy the entire system would be equalized and nothing would move.

 

[BeerFst]

Doesn't make sense to me. You need to have greater pressure on top of the beer in the Carboy (fermentor) to push the beer out through the racking cane, the keg receiving the beer needs to have a means to release the pressure building up as beer fills the keg or nothing will move. Usually this pressure would vent to atmosphere through the open top or opened relief valve. If this pressure were piped back into the carboy the entire system would be equalized and nothing would move.

He forgot to mention the fv needs to be above the sv so it relies on gravity. There’s a whole other thread on this, check out page 1 but it’s worth reading the whole thing
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/...ny-keg-fermenting.600563/page-10#post-8312878

 

[tld6008]

He forgot to mention the fv needs to be above the sv so it relies on gravity. There’s a whole other thread on this, check out page 1 but it’s worth reading the whole thing
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/...ny-keg-fermenting.600563/page-10#post-8312878

I can see it working if you are relying on a siphon to transfer but that is not what the initial discussion was about. I keep my vessels fairly even to avoid a strong siphon action as I find it picks up material from the bottom that doesn't happen when pressure differential is what moves the beer.

 

[stickyfinger]

Doesn't make sense to me. You need to have greater pressure on top of the beer in the Carboy (fermentor) to push the beer out through the racking cane, the keg receiving the beer needs to have a means to release the pressure building up as beer fills the keg or nothing will move. Usually this pressure would vent to atmosphere through the open top or opened relief valve. If this pressure were piped back into the carboy the entire system would be equalized and nothing would move.

gravity is the prime mover

 

[paarman]

Need some suggestions. So, I was supposed to acquire a small commercial fridge a day or two ago but the day I was going to pick it up, the guy found an issue with the thermostat he thinks, as it wasn’t getting as cold as it should. So he’s going to fix it but didn’t give me a time frame. Which blows, because now I’m stuck with a keg of beer and no way to cool it. It’s been in the keg for about 3.5 days just sitting at room temp (70*). My plan was to keep it at room temp 2-3 days, then get it into a fridge to crash for 24 hours, pump 30psi into it for 24 hours, then switch to serving psi and leave it for a few days until ready.

Well my schedule is jacked up and I have no way to cool it now... should I carb it up at room temp? Any ideas you guys can shoot at me would be great. Im kinda pissed about this whole last week as it seems kegging this beer just isn’t going my way haha.. and I don’t want it wasting away in the keg while doing nothing. Appreciate any advice on how to proceed!

 

[tld6008]

Need some suggestions. So, I was supposed to acquire a small commercial fridge a day or two ago but the day I was going to pick it up, the guy found an issue with the thermostat he thinks, as it wasn’t getting as cold as it should. So he’s going to fix it but didn’t give me a time frame. Which blows, because now I’m stuck with a keg of beer and no way to cool it. It’s been in the keg for about 3.5 days just sitting at room temp (70*). My plan was to keep it at room temp 2-3 days, then get it into a fridge to crash for 24 hours, pump 30psi into it for 24 hours, then switch to serving psi and leave it for a few days until ready.

Well my schedule is jacked up and I have no way to cool it now... should I carb it up at room temp? Any ideas you guys can shoot at me would be great. Im kinda pissed about this whole last week as it seems kegging this beer just isn’t going my way haha.. and I don’t want it wasting away in the keg while doing nothing. Appreciate any advice on how to proceed!

You could carb it naturally with 2 oz of corn sugar, have to open it up to put it in but kegs are kept at room temp to carb up so there wouldn't be any rush for a week or so. Just purge w/ Co2 if you open it. Other option is wet towels with a fan blowing on it (evaporative cooling) or chill it with ice in a 5 gal bucket.

 

[tld6008]

He forgot to mention the fv needs to be above the sv so it relies on gravity. There’s a whole other thread on this, check out page 1 but it’s worth reading the whole thing
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/...ny-keg-fermenting.600563/page-10#post-8312878

Thanks. Read it and learned something.