tri-clamps...

[bracconiere]

so focus on the equipment, not sanitation in this...

right now this thing is holding 8 psi, and still fermenting....

but i would feel so much safer with it in the house if i could figure out if there was a way to use a tri clamp, in stead of the clamps....according to doug, that lid is holding back like 700lbs of force right now....i'm not worried about the metal failing. but those clamps give me the creeps....

 

[bracconiere]

ok so i was looking around i think this would work....but seriously $80?

https://www.morebeer.com/products/m...PYZRqL3mdvdJD_rwlP-QfL7DOnON9IpQaAhHcEALw_wcB

 

[bruce_the_loon]

What is the rim thickness and diameter? Thinking a barrel ring clamp might be a good alternative

 

[sibelman]

Seems unlikely that the geometry of the milk can lid/lip will mate with the tri - clamp correctly. Save your $80.

 

[bracconiere]

What is the rim thickness and diameter? Thinking a barrel ring clamp might be a good alternative

the lid is 3/4" thick, and 10.5" acrost....

Seems unlikely that the geometry of the milk can lid/lip will mate with the tri - clamp correctly. Save your $80.

yeah....(if i had $80....lol )

 

[bracconiere]

thanks for the tip getting closer to doable....

https://www.oneida-air.com/11-inch-...NNZuDYEYGa1-1Dy8FPJ-T8XuTSF5e-mgaAtECEALw_wcB

 

[bracconiere]

looking at this, but can't tell from the pic if it's got enough if any reccess in the middle of the clamp?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/313770391761?epid=13046773133&hash=item490e2c38d1:g:hJgAAOSwZvZhoYQ5

 

[bruce_the_loon]

thanks for the tip getting closer to doable....

https://www.oneida-air.com/11-inch-...NNZuDYEYGa1-1Dy8FPJ-T8XuTSF5e-mgaAtECEALw_wcB

Cool, that's what I was envisioning, couldn't find one under 15 inch for barrels. That second one does look like it has a recess. Here's the manufacturers site.

https://www.nordfab.com/en-us/products/qf-ducting

 

[PCABrewing]

If you're worried about failure under pressure from a safety perspective, the spring clamps are probably better.
The weakest one will fail first relieving pressure VS containing the pressure until a catastrophic vessel failure.
In any case that is non-frangible material so it is not going to be like a grenade though a sidewall rupture would cause it to move as result.

 

[bracconiere]

Cool, that's what I was envisioning, couldn't find one under 15 inch for barrels. That second one does look like it has a recess. Here's the manufacturers site.

https://www.nordfab.com/en-us/products/qf-ducting

i just measured my milk can lid, think it's actually a solid 10.75" diameter....would i want 10" clamp, or 11" for it?

 

[bracconiere]

If you're worried about failure under pressure from a safety perspective, the spring clamps are probably better.
The weakest one will fail first relieving pressure VS containing the pressure until a catastrophic vessel failure.
In any case that is non-frangible material so it is not going to be like a grenade though a sidewall rupture would cause it to move as result.

so you're saying i'm better off with the way it is?

 

[PCABrewing]

so you're saying i'm better off with the way it is?

From the perspective of bursting, you are better off if it bursts at a lower pressure.
If you secure the lid better, then you move the failure point to the sidewall, a weld or the bottom.
The lid might distort as perssure builds thus lowering pressure safely.

 

[bracconiere]

From the perspective of bursting, you are better off if it bursts at a lower pressure.
If you secure the lid better, then you move the failure point to the sidewall, a weld or the bottom.
The lid might distort as perssure builds thus lowering pressure safely.

right now the lid starts leaking around 5-8psi.....

but i made the mistake of popping a clamp at just 3psi, and knocked my knuckle pretty good doing it.....

the clamp did catch the lid with the bent over hook, but still i was surprised at what just 3psi had to deal out.....

 

[bracconiere]

got me thinking...should drill a third hole and stick one of these in there shouldn't i?

https://fhsteinbart.com/product/p-r-v-univ-w-bulkhead/

i'm just nervous, i've never pressure fermented before.....and this would be one hell of a bottle bomb!!!!

 

[bruce_the_loon]

Just been digging into the technical specifications for the Nordfab stuff and I don't think it will work. The specs indicate the seal band on the 8" to 11" clamps is 1/2" wide, which means the trough of the clamp will be too narrow to grip your 3/4" rim.

 

[micraftbeer]

got me thinking...should drill a third hole and stick one of these in there shouldn't i?

https://fhsteinbart.com/product/p-r-v-univ-w-bulkhead/

i'm just nervous, i've never pressure fermented before.....and this would be one hell of a bottle bomb!!!!

You've got Spunding on there to keep pressure manageable, and the PRV to protect you if the Spunding clogs up or fails to work for some reason. Theoretically, you'd know the pressure capability of your vessel, and then pick a PRV that will vent at a pressure lower than that. And your spunding is set to a lower pressure than the PRV since you don't normally want to regulate on the edge of equipment failure.

I agree with your thinking that a band clamp is a good idea, get rid of that weak spot. A clamp flying off and shooting across the room sounds like no fun. But then make sure you get a PRV that is like 10 psi. Don't get a keg PRV that's like 100 psi. That will likely be beyond the capability of your milk can and thus not actually protect you from failure.

 

[bracconiere]

Just been digging into the technical specifications for the Nordfab stuff and I don't think it will work. The specs indicate the seal band on the 8" to 11" clamps is 1/2" wide, which means the trough of the clamp will be too narrow to grip your 3/4" rim.

thanks for looking into it for me! i still think i'd feel more safe if i had a round ring clamp of some sort on this thing.....PRV valve is on it's way, and these clamps just strike me like they could get acidently flipped to easily.....

 

[bracconiere]

You've got Spunding on there to keep pressure manageable, and the PRV to protect you if the Spunding clogs up or fails to work for some reason. Theoretically, you'd know the pressure capability of your vessel, and then pick a PRV that will vent at a pressure lower than that. And your spunding is set to a lower pressure than the PRV since you don't normally want to regulate on the edge of equipment failure.

I agree with your thinking that a band clamp is a good idea, get rid of that weak spot. A clamp flying off and shooting across the room sounds like no fun. But then make sure you get a PRV that is like 10 psi. Don't get a keg PRV that's like 100 psi. That will likely be beyond the capability of your milk can and thus not actually protect you from failure.

i ordered a keg PRV, in my experience they start venting after about 45psi.....

 

[bruce_the_loon]

A ring clamp would still be the best solution, an even grip across the entire rim is the only way to ensure you don't have a point opening up to release pressure prematurely.

Barrel ring clamps have a U shape to the channel to force the two rims together as it binds tighter. Just a problem to find one sized for your milk can.

 

[bracconiere]

bruce, what do you think of this it's cheap...but there isn't a pic...but says this is pretty much what it's for. only it's 8" for some reason?

https://milehidistilling.com/product/milk-can-lid-clamp/

 

[bruce_the_loon]

thanks for looking into it for me! i still think i'd feel more safe if i had a round ring clamp of some sort on this thing.....PRV valve is on it's way, and these clamps just strike me like they could get acidently flipped to easily.....

Those clips you currently have don't have a retaining pin hole through the side of the handle? Some of the pics I've seen on EBay seem to show they might.

 

[bruce_the_loon]

bruce, what do you think of this it's cheap...but there isn't a pic...but says this is pretty much what it's for. only it's 8" for some reason?

https://milehidistilling.com/product/milk-can-lid-clamp/

Might be the same design clamp as the one on this lid. 3 Inch Diameter Domed Lid with Built in Screen - Mile Hi Distilling

Would work if you could get one sized for your lid.

 

[bracconiere]

Those clips you currently have don't have a retaining pin hole through the side of the handle? Some of the pics I've seen on EBay seem to show they might.

damn, brilliant! they actually do.. time to trim some bailing wire and stick it through them, thanks again! strangley i was just looking them wondering what the extra holes were for!

 

[superiorsat]

So I have a couple 20 gallon blue ibuprofen holding barrels that have the type of barrel lid clamp you have been discussing and even though it was designed for the blue barrels which have rubber gaskets for sealing the barrel when I fermented in them I didn't get one bubble through the air lock and didn't even bother to switch to a blow off tube. Guessing a clamp not designed for your milk tank would yield the same results. I think the wire for safety seems your best bet and I believe the lid would let pressure escape before things got too dangerous.

 

[bracconiere]

So I have a couple 20 gallon blue ibuprofen holding barrels that have the type of barrel lid clamp you have been discussing and even though it was designed for the blue barrels which have rubber gaskets for sealing the barrel when I fermented in them I didn't get one bubble through the air lock and didn't even bother to switch to a blow off tube. Guessing a clamp not designed for your milk tank would yield the same results. I think the wire for safety seems your best bet and I believe the lid would let pressure escape before things got too dangerous.

i've got one of those blue barrels! and the clamp! it's not the right size for the milk can....but i was just eyeing i...

 

[IslandLizard]

i ordered a keg PRV, in my experience they start venting after about 45psi.....

I hope you're aware that the 45psi PRV won't do anything, in light of this:

right now the lid starts leaking around 5-8psi.....

Isn't 5-8 psi plenty for fermentation? The lid will automatically start venting at that pressure.
Can you rely on it? That's the bigger question.

 

[bracconiere]

I hope you're aware that the 45psi PRV won't do anything, in light of this:



Isn't 5-8 psi plenty for fermentation? The lid will automatically start venting at that pressure.
Can you rely on it? That's the bigger question.

i don't know man, i'm getting ready for bed and had a bit...but trying to think, i live in s.az. and room temp getts pretty high....thinking if i don't want to spend the bucks on keiveik, or whatever...going need like 10 psi at least....then i could use lager yeast even?


and yeah the lid vents at 5 psi...which is both good and bad, i don't have to worry about a 100psi ss bomb, and bad, i can't pressure ferment at 10-12psi....

edit: don't even compare the $150 i spent on the milk can to how many packs of kviek i could have bought.....pressure is for life!

 

[IslandLizard]

according to doug, that lid is holding back like 700lbs of force right now....i'm not worried about the metal failing. but those clamps give me the creeps....

Ouch!
That's the equivalent of putting 700 lbs on top of the lid, such as an engine, just to keep it down. And that's only at 8psi...
Those blow tie spunding valves aren't known for their precision either.

I would be worried about the integrity of the clips and their spot welds.

pressure is for life!

I doubt those milk cans were designed with pressure in mind.

 

[bracconiere]

Ouch!
That's the equivalent of putting 700 lbs on top of the lid, such as an engine, just to keep it down. And that's only at 8psi...
Those blow tie spunding valves aren't known for their precision either.

I would be worried about the integrity of the clips and their spot welds.


I doubt those milk cans were designed with pressure in mind.

i'm sure the lid wasn't designed to hold pressure...other wise it would seal from the bottom like a keg lid. but it does hold 5psi easy, and 8 with help.


i feel safer since bruce told me they have saftey holes for a retainer, to prevent accidently pulling a clamp while it has pressure...