"TRI-CLAMP ULWD ELEMENT" vs "TRI-CLAMP SUPER ULWD ELEMENT"

[heatdas]

i am homebrewing starter,and I found many brewers already are using ripple element with tri-clamp for easy of cleaning,replacing etc,and I saw many store are selling it,for example,brewhardware,brew-boss,brewpower.no.But,I always have a question:tri-clamp ripple element is good at brewing because of ULWD,whether there is super-ULWD element?Who know?

 

[heatdas]

boil coil of blichmann is super ULWD

 

[doug293cz]

boil coil of blichmann is super ULWD

Boil coil is not easily removable from the kettle.

Brew on

 

[augiedoggy]

i am homebrewing starter,and I found many brewers already are using ripple element with tri-clamp for easy of cleaning,replacing etc,and I saw many store are selling it,for example,brewhardware,brew-boss,brewpower.no.But,I always have a question:tri-clamp ripple element is good at brewing because of ULWD,whether there is super-ULWD element?Who know?

a 4500w ripple is lower watt density than a 5500w ripple... same surface area and heated area only less wattage but still plenty for brewing 10 gallons or less. you have to add about 10 minutes for heating times to get to a boil per brew day for the boil kettle. most dont think about that or consider it and I dont know why.

Still as a heating element supplier in china https://heatdas.en.china.cn/ I would applaud you for coming up with an even lower watt density cost effective heating element that still fits in most homebrewing kettles and is easily removable for cleaning.

 

[processhead]

Is there a point of diminishing returns on low watt density in brew kettle applications?
I can see a clear advantage of low watt density in a RIMS tube application where the flow and volume of wort around the element can be very low.
But in a brew kettle, I am not sure there is that much of an advantage.
I am open to being convinced though.

 

[doug293cz]

Is there a point of diminishing returns on low watt density in brew kettle applications?
I can see a clear advantage of low watt density in a RIMS tube application where the flow and volume of wort around the element can be very low.
But in a brew kettle, I am not sure there is that much of an advantage.
I am open to being convinced though.

If you have a lot of suspended particulates in the wort, they can settle on the element during times of no recirc, or low convection currents. Turning the element on with settled particulates on the element can scorch the built up material, if the surface temp is high enough. I don't know how low the watt density needs to be to prevent this possibility. Once you are below the critical power density, then going lower would not provide any benefit.

Brew on

 

[augiedoggy]

Its been reported that things like color and flavor are effected by the heat intensity. In many breweries the watt density is very low since it comes from a steam jacket.

 

[processhead]

I completely agree with the above two posts, and I think that there is a lot of consensus that ULWD is a good minimum benchmark for electric elements that address auggie and doug's points.

But do even lower watt densities in kettle elements provide brewing benefits?, and at what point do the benefits diminish, and it just becomes product marketing?

Has anyone reported any data that demonstrates a continued benefit for even lower watt densities?

 

[augiedoggy]

I completely agree with the above two posts, and I think that there is a lot of consensus that ULWD is a good minimum benchmark for electric elements that address auggie and doug's points.

But do even lower watt densities in kettle elements provide brewing benefits, and at what point do the benefits diminish and it just become marketing?

Has anyone reported any data that demonstrates a continued benefit for even lower watt densities?

One benefit would be a way around all the scorching reports I still see here from people who claim to still be getting it with ULWD ripples because they are doing the things doug mentioned .. In configurations like direct heated recirc BIAB applications where its most commonly reported it may likely be less likely...
Besides Have you noticed that a lot of homebrewing stuff coming out isnt necessarily driven by practical need? This at least has some benefit to it as its safer in many ways like being dry fired and would be easier to clean. That alone is enough to me. My rims elements in both my brewpub system and home rims is super uldw being long lower wattage cartridge heaters and they literally wipe clean if theres even any buildup on them. They dont get the brown baked film that my ULWD ripple elements get in the BK. The ripples work, I just think theres room for improvement over a element designed with heating just water in mind. boil coils are nice but for what it is its very pricey and proprietary... you cant switch to a different element later just another boil coil.

 

[FatDragon]

Still as a heating element supplier in china https://heatdas.en.china.cn/ I would applaud you for coming up with an even lower watt density cost effective heating element that still fits in most homebrewing kettles and is easily removable for cleaning.

OP should probably send me an element for testing purposes, since I'm a homebrewer in China. Actually, he might do well to send me an entire eBIAB system built from his equipment. I promise I'll write a very thorough review. I'll even translate it into Chinese myself for domestic marketing purposes!

 

[heatdas]

a 4500w ripple is lower watt density than a 5500w ripple... same surface area and heated area only less wattage but still plenty for brewing 10 gallons or less. you have to add about 10 minutes for heating times to get to a boil per brew day for the boil kettle. most dont think about that or consider it and I dont know why.

Still as a heating element supplier in china https://heatdas.en.china.cn/ I would applaud you for coming up with an even lower watt density cost effective heating element that still fits in most homebrewing kettles and is easily removable for cleaning.

Yes,that removable super ULWD element is being tested with some homebrewers of my clients,i am hoping to make progress soonest.

 

[processhead]

Since I am running a RIMS and dealing with pre-boil wort that is almost devoid of any solids, I am sure my kettle element doesn't get exposed to some of the conditions that promote scorching.
Guys with an electric BK who are doing conventional mashes or extract brewers almost certainly are dealing with kettle conditions that could contribute to scorching.
Having controls on the kettle element, and using them correctly, make it easier to transition to a rolling boil without out running at full power, which also lowers the likelihood of scorching or color changes
As with so many things in brewing or any other process for that matter, the advantages of one variable are dependent on countless others.
So maybe the answer to my original question is not a hard "yes or no", but rather "it just depends".

 

[augiedoggy]

Since I am running a RIMS and dealing with pre-boil wort that is almost devoid of any solids, I am sure my kettle element doesn't get exposed to some of the conditions that promote scorching.
Guys with an electric BK who are doing conventional mashes or extract brewers almost certainly are dealing with kettle conditions that could contribute to scorching.
Having controls on the kettle element and using them correctly make it easier make a smooth transition to a rolling boil without out running at full power, which also lowers the likelihood of scorching or color changes
As with so many things in brewing or any other process for that matter, the advantages of one variable are dependent on countless others.
So maybe the answer to my original question is not a hard "yes or no", but rather "it just depends".

I totally agree... but if a low cost, lower watt density element came out and was sold for home brewing it would remove the possibility or at least negate it further... so why not? Its superior and less likely to be a possible problem. True people with processes like yours and mine dont need them but I myself still wouldnt mind having them just for easier cleanup and the possibility I can get less carmelization in the boil.

 

[heatdas]

Is there a point of diminishing returns on low watt density in brew kettle applications?
I can see a clear advantage of low watt density in a RIMS tube application where the flow and volume of wort around the element can be very low.
But in a brew kettle, I am not sure there is that much of an advantage.
I am open to being convinced though.

If you have a lot of suspended particulates in the wort, they can settle on the element during times of no recirc, or low convection currents. Turning the element on with settled particulates on the element can scorch the built up material, if the surface temp is high enough. I don't know how low the watt density needs to be to prevent this possibility. Once you are below the critical power density, then going lower would not provide any benefit.
Brew on

This particulates settled in wort may be some proteins,which did not transfer into suger.Proteins is from mash,and proteins will be scorched and covered around heating element when element watt density is above 6w/cm2,this is being designed for the coming element,we already realized that.

 

[heatdas]

We believe,there is big benefits ruturns from super ULWD element in brew kettle application!!!BLICHMANN and heatdas is cooperating to design tri-clamp super ULWD element from 2018,when we make progress,we would keep you updated ASAP.