Treehouse Style IPA's

[henchman24]

Chimay uses flour for head retention. They crash their beer for clarity

Point being... they use flour.

It is pretty similar to using flaked wheat if both are in the mash.

 

[m00ps]

As I said earlier, I've read that Chimay actually uses flour in their beers... so Treehouse, Trillium, Tired Hand etc may not use flour, but some breweries do. When you get down to the brass tacks here wheat flour is ground up wheat without the husks (and obviously not malted). With enough flaked wheat, you could probably get the same result as I got. The flour just made it easier to achieve. When using flour in the boil, that doesn't allow the starch to get converted in the mash and will create some intentional starch haze... I haven't used more than a tablespoon yet in that area.

LOL brass tacks....sorry off topic

Yeah I added 1/4lb of flour to my boil in the pics of that double IPA I and @arnobg posted. I also used 2 lbs of flaked wheat and 2 lbs of flaked oats, as well as Conan (which is notorious for poor flocculation). I think all of these factors are what gave it a permanent haze that was still there after a month in the keg

 

[arnobg]

Looks nice. Can you compare the juice character or other aspects to any commercial brews?

Honestly not really because I haven't had many of this style of IPA that you guys are describing in this discussion.

All I can describe is that it is very thick, juicy, and has an intense hop aroma and flavor without the extreme bitterness that should come with this kind of hop flavor. It also seems very dry but I think that's because he blended a Saison yeast (correct me if I am wrong @m00ps). It has a balanced bitterness that carries through from the initial taste to aftertaste.

Couldn't it be that these breweries aren't really concerend with filtering or cold crashing to clear the beer plus they prob use a ridiculous amount of late hops and dry hops which will leave a haze plus their yeast strain could all contribute to a more hazy beer. I actually prefer a cloud or hazy beer idk why its just me, I'm just trying to wrap my head around purposely hazing a beer by adding flour, kudos to moops for his experimentation, not knocking that, but I can't image the big guys are adding flour to their beer so shouldn't we be able to find the way they do it other than fabricate it?

I really think there is more going on here with the flour than just hazing. This beer has a thick bodied mouthfeel. I'll be honest that I probably don't have the experience to say it is from the flour or grain bill etc....I just know that the mouthfeel I am describing is there without a doubt.

 

[m00ps]

Yeah I used some wyeast 3711, which is known for adding some mouthfeel to the beer given how high it attenuates. I think this, along with the other factors, got me the nice body on a 9% IPA that has an FG of 1.006

definitely have to try brewing this again. Maybe go for mango juice instead of OJ

 

[henchman24]

Yeah I added 1/4lb of flour to my boil in the pics of that double IPA I and @arnobg posted. I also used 2 lbs of flaked wheat and 2 lbs of flaked oats, as well as Conan (which is notorious for poor flocculation). I think all of these factors are what gave it a permanent haze that was still there after a month in the keg

Have you tried mashing some flour?

I'm going to give just throwing it into the boil a shot the next time I get around to one of these beers. The best part of homebrewing is the experimentation. :rockin:

I don't know all the science behind it, but there is something to the flour in all of this. It does dramatically change the beers, side by side to the other IPA I had that was near identical in every other way was a night and day difference. For the better IMO.

 

[m00ps]

Yeah, I tried adding some flour to both the mash and boil for a hefe I did shortly after my DIPA. I used whole wheat flour. Figured its about the same as the fine dust at the bottom of your ground grains. Cant say for sure if the mash looked any hazier, but I included the 4oz I added as 4oz more wheat for OG calculations

 

[BreezyBrew]

Not to be the Devils Advocate here, but has anyone ever thought that the flour might just be a commercial brewing process rather than the actual ingredient itself? If the way that the commercial guys crush their grain much finer. Wouldn't that produce a lot of "flour"?

Not trying to knock anyone on this thread regarding their research. Just a thought.

 

[m00ps]

Yeah thats what I think with mashing flour at least. Not really different than having very dry or finely ground grain.

But adding it to the boil seems different since by now, all the grains should be gone and only the wort sugars remain. It also seems to be what gives it permanent haze

 

[Remmy]

Haze in IPAs - the next hipster fad.

 

[ejf063]

subscribed

 

[henchman24]

Not to be the Devils Advocate here, but has anyone ever thought that the flour might just be a commercial brewing process rather than the actual ingredient itself? If the way that the commercial guys crush their grain much finer. Wouldn't that produce a lot of "flour"?

Not trying to knock anyone on this thread regarding their research. Just a thought.

Milling it really fine would result in a bunch of 'flour'... which is why it isn't that off the wall of a concept in the mash when you really think about it (boil is a slightly different story). Flour is ground grain without the husks. It makes it easier to get the same result as using more flaked wheat on a home brewing scale without the sparge issues of milling all the grain so fine (I have said enough flaked wheat would probably produce a similar result). Pulling out another saying here... more than 1 way to skin a cat.

This is one of those situations that I think it sounds crazier than it really is.

Haze in IPAs - the next hipster fad.

I think we are already in the middle of the fad.

 

[BreezyBrew]

Haze in IPAs - the next hipster fad.

I can hear Dar already "That is staight juice boys"

 

[m00ps]

Im already filtering and fining my intentionally hazed IPAs with gelatin

But Ive moved onto hazy stouts. Its so hazy you cant even see how dark it is

 

[lilbova3]

Great info. Subscribed.

 

[m00ps]

hey @arnobg
can I use that pic you posted of my IPA for the article? The lighting and everything is much better than the one I snapped a while back to try and show the clarity

 

[arnobg]

hey @arnobg
can I use that pic you posted of my IPA for the article? The lighting and everything is much better than the one I snapped a while back to try and show the clarity

Absolutely man. I'll trade you the pic for another

Seriously though go for it!

 

[lilbova3]

I've drank a good bit of beer from Tired Hands here in Philly, and the beers you describe sound very similar to their style. I've even tried my hand at a clone which came out pretty good but still a bit short. My brew was based on this great article: http://www.alesoftheriverwards.com/2015/08/tired-hands-hophands-clone-revisted.html

I think the keys are:
* Use flaked or golden oats for mouthfeel.
* Use English Ale yeast (Tired Hands uses Wyeast London Ale III and I do to) for the fruity character and cloudiness it brings.
* Use more hops than seems sane. If you aren't buying hops by the pound you shouldn't even attempt these styles because you will go broke. Get a cheap vacuum sealer, buy in bulk.

This is what I would think for the cloudiness, adding oats, and I'm sure an English yeast strain would contribute as well. Not saying flour is incorrect but it would just be hard for me to throw flour in a beer. I've never done it or tasted one with it so I can't really say much in regards to it though.

Stouts that I've made and added oats to have never gotten that mouthfeel I'm looking for compared to some of the great stouts from craft breweries. That soft, pillowy and stick to your teeth viscosity feel. I love swirly the glass with a stout in it and seeing the beer sticking to the glass! I've usually kept my oats around 10%, but after reading the article you posted about this one recipe having 18%, I'd like to give that a try.

 

[m00ps]

I would keep an eye on the amount of golden naked oats you use though. They do help with head retention but are basically a crystal type of oat. Dont get me wrong, they are delicious enough to pour milk over and eat with a spoon, but any more than 5% or so will lead to a very sweet IPA. They arent really a substitute for regular flaked oats. IME, flaked oats and flaked wheat work great for this type of IPA

 

[Sully896]

At what point in the boil are you adding the flour? I'm intrigued...

 

[m00ps]

At what point in the boil are you adding the flour? I'm intrigued...

I did like 10min from the end of the boil. Watch out though, if you just dump it in, it can clump, especially if you dont have a very vigorous boil. What Im gonna do next time is make a slurry with a bit of warm water in a tupperware container by shaking it up and adding that to the boil

 

[iBrewR]

I'd think that the starch would be bad for stability, but in a beer that doesn't hang around long, it probably wouldn't matter.

 

[Sully896]

I did like 10min from the end of the boil. Watch out though, if you just dump it in, it can clump, especially if you dont have a very vigorous boil. What Im gonna do next time is make a slurry with a bit of warm water in a tupperware container by shaking it up and adding that to the boil

Awesome, thanks for the heads up.

 

[Remmy]

I almost want to open a can of Julius just so I feel cool drinking beer with flour/grain-milled-to-the-death/a-****load-of-wheat in it.

 

[hopsandhops]

sub'd

 

[Oldskewl]

^^Love me some Julius

Subbed also

 

[Remmy]

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1447524866.236477.jpg



Flour power.

 

[BreezyBrew]

Interesting study:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/j.2050-0416.1962.tb01890.x/pdf

 

[m00ps]

LOL that article looks like it would smell like one of those yellow tinged old books. Even uses "flavour"

 

[kevink]

View attachment 315909



Flour power.

Okay, whose got the malt bill for that color? That is just beautiful.

 

[Oldskewl]

I just tried my first Julius a couple weeks ago. Awesome IPA. Definitely in my top 5.

Bissel Bros Reciprocal was very similar. Another one to try if you get the chance.