Transfer From Fermenter to Keg - Your Method?

[Jiffster]

I'm preparing to fill my first keg with a brew and I'm trying to decide which method I want to use to transfer the beer. I thought a poll to see how others are doing it might help me decide which way to go.

I listed 4 choices (one being "Other")

Purge keg with C02 & transfer from fermenter to keg using a hose connected to spigot on fermenter.

Purge keg with C02 & rack from fermenter to keg via siphon/racking cane

Use C02 to transfer beer via a closed system

Other

 

[wi_brewer]

I just started a new process that I am pretty pumped about.

I am purging my kegs with CO2 by filling them with StarSan and then using CO2 to push it out into the next keg.

My fermenters are 60L Speidels. I put a spigot on the top with a CO2 line connected. I use that to push the beer out of the lower spigot and into the Out-side of the keg using a disconnect. The PRV is open while doing this to allow the CO2 to vent out of the keg as it is displaced with beer.

I keep the kegs on a scale so I know when they are full.

 

[iijakii]

Gravity drain to a purged keg via my conicals. I want to eventually setup a spundling valve and do it all completely closed-system but for now I'm too cheap and lazy to do it.

 

[passedpawn]

Autosiphon to keg beer post, which gets the beer to the bottom of the keg with no turbulence at all. I used to purge the kegs first, but I've found that it isn't necessary, so I do the transfer and THEN purge the 1" or 2" of headspace when finished.

I've done the closed-system with CO2 transfers, but it was a bit of a hassle for me since I'm fermenting in carboys. For those fermenting in kegs or conicals, probably the ideal method though.

 

[LandoLincoln]

I use an auto-siphon to go from my carboy to the keg. I don't use any CO2 in the process.

 

[kev211]

I siphon from fermenter (glass carboy for me) to keg. I dont purge with CO2 before, but I do purge the remaining headspace with CO2 once the transfer is complete. Basically the same as PassedPawn only difference is that my siphon line is long enough to reach the bottom of the keg so I dont need to hook it up to the liquid post

 

[passedpawn]

I siphon from fermenter (glass carboy for me) to keg. I dont purge with CO2 before, but I do purge the remaining headspace with CO2 once the transfer is complete. Basically the same as PassedPawn only difference is that my siphon line is long enough to reach the bottom of the keg so I dont need to hook it up to the liquid post

The nice thing about going into the beer post is that when it's full, I can pop it off the post and move it to the next keg without making a mess. I end up with > 5g of beer per carboy. Also, you don't have to worry about sanitizing the outside of the siphon hose.

 

[kev211]

The nice thing about going into the beer post is that when it's full, I can pop it off the post and move it to the next keg without making a mess. I end up with > 5g of beer per carboy. Also, you don't have to worry about sanitizing the outside of the siphon hose.

Fair enough. I usually end up with 5gal per carboy so it fits one keg perfectly. And I just toss the whole hose into sanitizer before adding to my racking cane so it all gets sanitized just fine. I do like the no mess of pulling it off the post. Different strokes I guess

 

[ballsy]

The nice thing about going into the beer post is that when it's full, I can pop it off the post and move it to the next keg without making a mess. I end up with > 5g of beer per carboy. Also, you don't have to worry about sanitizing the outside of the siphon hose.

If you dip the siphon hose into the bucket of sanitizer you are naturally treating both inside and outside at the same time so lack of having to sanitize the outside really doesn't seem like a benefit/advantage to me. But using the post when filling multiple kegs like you do would be a huge advantage.

To the OP, I'm like the others here which auto siphon to keg and do not purge prior to filling. As long as the siphon tube reaches to bottom of keg you won't have any oxygenation going on. It's been discussed in these forums a bunch. Definitely purge with 10psi a few times once filled and sealed up though!

 

[brewprint]

I use option 2 but I do not purge the keg with CO2 first. I believe that's just hocus pocus with very minimal benefit if any.

 

[passedpawn]

If you dip the siphon hose into the bucket of sanitizer you are naturally treating both inside and outside at the same time so lack of having to sanitize the outside really doesn't seem like a benefit/advantage to me.

I don't use a bucket to sanitize (In fact, in all the years I've been brewing I don't think I've ever done that). I use spraybottles of starsan solution. Still, sanitizing the outside of the tubing wouldn't be a big deal, but just another step (for me) that I can avoid.

 

[IslandLizard]

... I've done the closed-system with CO2 transfers, but it was a bit of a hassle for me since I'm fermenting in carboys. For those fermenting in kegs or conicals, probably the ideal method though.

When I was fermenting in carboys I found it actually very easy to rack under CO2 using one of those soft "rubber" red or orange carboy caps. The center outlet holds the (stainless) racking cane, the narrow, side one is for the CO2 tubing. Just a little CO2 pressure (~1 psi) is enough to get the siphon started and you can flow CO2 while racking, or disconnect and let it fill with air.

Since I moved up to fermentation buckets, that method isn't so easy anymore. I like the concept of air/O2 free transfers, especially for hoppy and other "fragile" beers, so it's been on my mind.

The only way I can see doing this with buckets is to drill another hole in the lids for a CO2 connection, so the headspace can be lightly pressurized. The airlock grommet hole also may needs some attention if the racking cane doesn't quite seal the opening enough.

With closed buckets there's also the visibility issue. Just leaving the last 2-3 quarts or so behind to prevent sucking up trub and yeast seems like a waste. I always tilt the bucket when the beer level gets low.

 

[Jaybird]

Most of the time its just a purged keg and auto siphon unless I have several to do. Then I go pressurized closed system and go in the beer out post so I don't have to worry about setting the tubing down and re-sanitizing. I can just drop the ball lock in some star san while I am moving things around.

Cheers
Jay

 

[passedpawn]

When I was fermenting in carboys I found it actually very easy to rack under CO2 using one of those soft "rubber" red or orange carboy caps. The center outlet holds the (stainless) racking cane, the narrow, side one is for the CO2 tubing. Just a little CO2 pressure (~1 psi) is enough to get the siphon started and you can flow CO2 while racking, or disconnect and let it fill with air.

Sounds very, very familiar

 

[Duke145]

I pump a small amount of Co2 into my kegs then siphon from my carboys with a 1/2 inch racking cane then I purge the head space a couple of times. I think this minimizes oxygen exposure while conserving Co2.

 

[blizz81]

When I was fermenting in carboys I found it actually very easy to rack under CO2 using one of those soft "rubber" red or orange carboy caps. The center outlet holds the (stainless) racking cane, the narrow, side one is for the CO2 tubing. Just a little CO2 pressure (~1 psi) is enough to get the siphon started and you can flow CO2 while racking, or disconnect and let it fill with air.

I voted for this, though I haven't done it yet (I've only racked one batch to a keg so far. Did it the autosiphon method. Of course, it was a very pale white IPA, why wouldn't it be?). Still waiting for a packaged cap + wand thinger from NB to come back in stock. Regardless of my opinions on musings of how long it takes O2 to bind in beer when exposed / purging a keg to attempt to evacuate existing oxygen, I guess the main thing is...this seems really simple / easy and doesn't really cost you much CO2.

 

[IslandLizard]

I pump a small amount of Co2 into my kegs then siphon from my carboys with a 1/2 inch racking cane then I purge the head space a couple of times. I think this minimizes oxygen exposure while conserving Co2.

That small amount of CO2 will mix immediately with the air inside through turbulence, and does close to nothing to minimize O2 exposure. The CO2 blanket is a myth.

There are some threads on purging vessels and the residual air/O2 volumes after each purge. It's surprising how much CO2 is needed to purge out an air volume. Pre-purging by pushing out a 100% Starsan-filled keg with CO2 is the cheapest and most efficient method to obtain a close to 100% O2-free receiving environment.

Actually, when a 5 gallon keg is filled 80% with beer (4 gallons) it takes as much CO2 to purge the 1 gallon remaining headspace to around 2% O2 as it takes to pre-purge the whole keg to ~0% O2.

 

[Rockn_M]

I just spray everything down with star san and use a tube to connect the valve from my bucket to the bottom of the keg. Open up the value and call it a day. I haven't had an issue.

 

[dcrog]

I ferment in buckets,usually, so I just autosiphon to the keg. Never bother to purge it first, just the head space a few times after.

Never had any trouble with it this way. Some kegs have been kept over a year like this.

 

[beersk]

That small amount of CO2 will mix immediately with the air inside through turbulence, and does close to nothing to minimize O2 exposure. The CO2 blanket is a myth.

There are some threads on purging vessels and the residual air/O2 volumes after each purge. It's surprising how much CO2 is needed to purge out an air volume. Pre-purging by pushing out a 100% Starsan-filled keg with CO2 is the cheapest and most efficient method to obtain a close to 100% O2-free receiving environment.

Actually, when a 5 gallon keg is filled 80% with beer (4 gallons) it takes as much CO2 to purge the 1 gallon remaining headspace to around 2% O2 as it takes to pre-purge the whole keg to ~0% O2.

That's crazy! And I'm surprised at all the people who don't purge their kegs at all first before siphoning in. I purge with 10 PSI, hook up a picnic tap to push out the sanitizer in there, open the top and autosiphon from bucket to keg. Then purge a few times with 30 PSI.

 

[BlueHemlock]

I just started a new process that I am pretty pumped about.

I am purging my kegs with CO2 by filling them with StarSan and then using CO2 to push it out into the next keg.

My fermenters are 60L Speidels. I put a spigot on the top with a CO2 line connected. I use that to push the beer out of the lower spigot and into the Out-side of the keg using a disconnect. The PRV is open while doing this to allow the CO2 to vent out of the keg as it is displaced with beer.

I keep the kegs on a scale so I know when they are full.

Just curious (and lazy)...what weight do you go to?

 

[IslandLizard]

That's crazy! ...

Not sure what you're referring to that's crazy. Perhaps the amount of gas it takes to purge air from a gallon of headspace? Do the calculations.

Look at this post on residual O2 some breweries seem to require for stability. The rest of that thread is pretty interesting too.

open the top and autosiphon from bucket to keg. Then purge a few times with 30 PSI.

Opening the lid will mix air back into that keg, it may be a small enough amount to never notice it, but it's there and purging afterward will only dilute it. Instead, leaving the lid on and filling through the liquid out post is a way better method to keep O2 levels in the keg at an absolute minimum.

 

[eric19312]

I use an auto-siphon to go from my carboy to the keg. I don't use any CO2 in the process.

+1

I do purge the headspace with CO2 after filling the keg.

 

[SilverZero]

This is actually a dilemma I'm planning ahead for. I'm rebuilding my brewery after a move and my new fermenter is a Vittles Vault that will live in a small chest freezer fermentation chamber. I plan on fermenting 12+ gallons at a time, so it's going to be too heavy and awkward to get the fermenter up to a siphon-able height once it's in there.

My plan is to push with CO2. I'll start with a keg full of star-san and another for a "catch" keg. CO2 will push the star-san out of the first keg and into the 2nd (or just a bucket, who knows?) to sanitize and purge the keg. Then I'll switch the hookups and CO2 will push into the fermenter, which will push beer out into the keg (venting the CO2 out of the keg in the process). I could daisy-chain into a 2nd keg to push the CO2 from the 1st to the 2nd, or even push the first 5 gallons right through to the 2nd keg.

I can't see any other way of transferring from the fermenter without a hoist to lift it, unless I build a stand for the fermentation chamber so it's already off the ground (which I've also considered).

 

[vash68]

The nice thing about going into the beer post is that when it's full, I can pop it off the post and move it to the next keg without making a mess. I end up with > 5g of beer per carboy. Also, you don't have to worry about sanitizing the outside of the siphon hose.

passedpawn, how do you know when your first keg is full (the lid is closed and you can't see) and when to switch your beer disconnect to a next keg?

I know this old post but still wondering.

I am in the process of putting together my closed transfer process from conical fermenter into multiple (2-3) kegs.

 

[passedpawn]

passedpawn, how do you know when your first keg is full (the lid is closed and you can't see) and when to switch your beer disconnect to a next keg?

I know this old post but still wondering.

I am in the process of putting together my closed transfer process from conical fermenter into multiple (2-3) kegs.

When it gets close, I remove the keg lid and look. Not really O2-less, but good enough for me.

 

[timdillon36]

I keep it SFS. I treat the keg like a bottling bucket/big beer bottle.

Put some star san in and shake it all around then drain it out through all ports. Just enough co2 to keep the keg sealed and keg is marked C&S.

On bottling day I open the keg and add the priming sugar water to the keg. Siphon the beer in and seal it up and give it a shot of co2 to seal the lid.

Its like any other part of this hobby. Its your beer and you do what works into your schedule and budget.

 

[ChelisHubby]

I have only tasted one beer that was oxidized. That was from me endlessly messing with the co-2 trying to seal a leak. I personally don't see enough benefit to using Co-2 to a purged keg or for transfer
Maybe I drink them too fast. Your mileage may vary.

 

[olie]

I want to eventually setup a spundling valve...

Sorry, I know this is old, but an internet search brought me here to learn, then I had to go Google what "spundling" meant. (Hint: word only exists in Urban Dictionary. Not Safe For Polite Company.)

For future readers, that's a "spunding valve" (no L).

 

[dcrog]

+1

I do purge the headspace with CO2 after filling the keg.

+2

I have quite a few beers on tap at any one time and have never had one oxidize. Some have actually been kegged a year before.

 

[Sadu]

When it gets close, I remove the keg lid and look. Not really O2-less, but good enough for me.

This isn't ideal, since it's no longer a closed transfer.

I use gravity to do my closed transfers and its easy to tell when the keg is full.

Fermentor needs to be higher than the keg. Connect gas to gas and liquid to liquid. If the liquid line is full of beer or starsan a siphon will start.

When it is done you will get beer in your gas line and the flow stops. Pour yourself half a pint from the keg as some headspace is beneficial for carbonation. Move onto filling the next keg.

 

[eric19312]

+2

I have quite a few beers on tap at any one time and have never had one oxidize. Some have actually been kegged a year before.

haha way to resurrect old thread. I was scratching my head for a few minutes as I've been doing closed transfers I guess for about 18 months now. I now ferment in a 60L Speidel fermentor. I usually keg on brew day during mash and boil, harvest a half gallon of yeast at the end, pitching about 2/3 of that into that day's brew.

My process now looks like:

1. Clean the kegs. Kegging is different from bottling...dirty kegs that stayed pressurized just don't dry out or get nasty. A 2 month kicked keg is about as easy to clean as one that kicked yesterday. Cleaning process: disassemble, rinse well, run on a Mark II carboy cleaner for 10 min or so with PBW, soaking the poppets in same, rinse well with warm water, reassemble.

2. Purge the kegs. Fill first keg to the very top with Star San. First keg on table, second keg on floor. Jumper kegs liquid to liquid post. Keg on floor's gas-in port gets a gas connector with a piece of hose leading to a jar of star san...blow off tube style. First keg (the one on the table full of star-san is pressurized to 3 PSI and drains to second keg. When the liquid liquid jumper starts spitting foam I rock the keg on the table a bit to get last few drops of star-san and move it near the fermentor. If I am filling 3 kegs today keg 2 moves into keg one's position and I repeat. When I have enough purged kegs I still have a keg full of star-san which I will use later for sanitizing the fermentor.

3. Fill the kegs. I pressurize my Speidel fermentor to about 3 PSI and run the beer from the valve on the bottom (I use a 3/8 ss ball valve from SS Brewtech) to the liquid out on first keg to be filled. I use my gas-in hose to star-san-jar for pressure relief. My fermentor sits about 15" off the ground. The kegs fill pretty slowly. I watch the level on the fermentor to know when I am getting close and then keep an eye on the gas-in line to see when a bit of beer or foam starts coming out. Then that keg is done and I move to next keg.

4. Finish the kegs. If I am burst carbing I hook the kegs up to CO2 and pressurize to 30 PSI. In 24-36 hours reduce to serving pressure and they will be good to go in a few more days. If I am carbing with priming sugar I boil the priming sugar in filtered water, open the keg, add the priming sugar, close the keg, purge the head space with about 10 shots of CO2 and finally pressurize at 30 PSI to seat the lid until the priming can take over.

5. Clean the fermetor...harvest the yeast for today's batch. Disassemble the fermentor, clean, rinse, reassemble, sanitize (with that full keg of starsan), drain sanitizer back into the star san storage keg, and ready to transfer.

This process takes time. That 3/8" beer line is slow and I don't get much gravity assist. I can only pressurize the Speidel to about 3PSI without the lid deforming (it still holds the seal and will pop back later but bothers me so I try to avoid it). But my brew day averages 4 hours from dough-in to transfer to fermentor and all this work gets done easily during the slack time of the brew day.

I can't say for sure if my beer is better for it. I do find my beers taste remarkably fresh after weeks or even months in the keg. IPA hops still fade but not as fast. To bring those back on a 2 month old keg I may open the keg and hit them with an ounce of pellet hops in a tea ball when I start to serve that keg. I fine some of my beers with gelatin. When I do this I usually do it a day after kegging, when the beer has chilled to serving temperature and has decent amount of CO2 dissolved from burst carbing. I release the pressure, open the keg, add the gelatin (in 160F water), close the keg and purge the head-space with about 10 blasts, then make sure to reseat the lid with 30 PSI before dropping to serving pressure. I don't tend to gelatin fine naturally carbonated kegs as these are usually stored longer before serving and the beer clears up quite well with time.

I started doing this process when I moved to the larger fermentor because I was doing serious damage to my back trying to pull that full fermentor out of the fridge and get it up on a table to gravity transfer. Thought about using a beer transfer pump but then realized already had what I needed to do the pressurized transfers. Then realized if I was going to do pressurized transfers I might as well do the full job and properly purge my kegs.

 

[Lunkerking]

I use this method :

Purge keg with C02 & transfer from fermenter to keg using a hose connected to spigot on fermenter.

any idea why the beer stops flowing from the fermenter part of the way through the transfer process ? It’s not due to a clog in the fermenter. I do know that much. Thanks for any advice!

 

[Lunkerking]

I just spray everything down with star san and use a tube to connect the valve from my bucket to the bottom of the keg. Open up the value and call it a day. I haven't had an issue.

Have you had a situation where the beer stops flowing about half or most of the way through ?

 

[TwogunRocky]

Have you had a situation where the beer stops flowing about half or most of the way through ?

Is it possible your fermenter and keg are not at a sufficient height difference for the complete transfer?..... I've had the same issue a few times when racking from 1g demi to 1g demi, the lower level of the top fluid becomes too close to the high level of the bottom fluid.... and it stalls, very annoying indeed!!!

 

[Golddiggie]

Since I ferment under pressure and then carbonate in fermenter, I simply connect up the jumper from the racking arm (conical) to the serving keg (either 2.5 or 3 gallon typically) and open the valve. I have a hose on the gas post into a bucket of Starsan to prevent pressure locking the transfer. It also allows me to monitor when it's time to close the valve.

Once that's done, I connect up the Tapcooler and put the rest of the batch into cans.

Being able to simply place the filled keg into the keezer and have it immediately ready for drinking is a wonderful thing. Especially if you do this the evening before a gathering/party and want that beer available to people.