Training Wheels Berliner - good intro to sours

[Kealia]

Right, but a few people have used the flavored versions (versus the shots) to try and add flavor to the finished product. The blueberry that he used barely carried through so I'm suggesting to use twice as much to see if that makes the flavor better.
If treacheroustexan is just using that because that is what (s)he has access to and not for the mango flavor then it is a moot point, though.

 

[treacheroustexan]

Right, but a few people have used the flavored versions (versus the shots) to try and add flavor to the finished product. The blueberry that he used barely carried through so I'm suggesting to use twice as much to see if that makes the flavor better.
If treacheroustexan is just using that because that is what (s)he has access to and not for the mango flavor then it is a moot point, though.

I'm just using it because $2.98 is better than $13 for the lacto the recipe calls for shipped to me.

 

[Kealia]

And that is a damn good reason IMO!

My update: This beer is on tap as of a few days ago and it is a hit with my wife, daughter and I. We're using sugar-free Torani syrups to have the option of adding pineapple, hucklberry, peach, raspberry, etc. to each glass for variety. I'm pretty happy with the results of this easy-to-brew BW.

The perfectionist in my wants to do an AG version of this to:
1) Lighten up the color
2) Increase the fermentability of this (mine finished a bit higher than I wanted)
3) Increase the wheat presence. The DME doesn't bring the wheat forward as much as I would like

Mind you, these are nit-picks. The part of me that is lazy says "it came out great, leave it alone". I think time will determine which route I go on the re-brew. Meaning, if I feel like investing more time in the brew I may go AG. If not, I'll leave as-is because it certainly was easy (as advertised).

 

[treacheroustexan]

My 3 gallons of this is going absolutely nuts right now.

 

[Kealia]

Good luck to you. I hope yours turns out well, too.

 

[treacheroustexan]

Good luck to you. I hope yours turns out well, too.

Glad yours turned out good. I'll have to pick up some of those syrups.

 

[Baja_Brewer]

Omega's site specifies a temperature range but not an SG range for the OYL-605. Anyone have experience with how this behaves in high gravity? Looking to sour, pasturize and then dilute for fermentation.

 

[TwistedGray]

Omega's site specifies a temperature range but not an SG range for the OYL-605. Anyone have experience with how this behaves in high gravity? Looking to sour, pasturize and then dilute for fermentation.

No issue souring even at super high gravity.

 

[Baja_Brewer]

No issue souring even at super high gravity.

Makes sense. Perfect. Built a starter earlier. This will really help cut down on the cooling time!

 

[Kealia]

This was such a hit at home that the keg kicked quickly. I can't get the Omega yeast locally and it's too damn hot to have it shipped right now (plus half of my state is on fire...) so I decided to do another batch but this time using GoodBelly since I've seen it locally.
Two stops later yesterday and I can't find the Goodbelly shots so I went with the full carton.
I made a starter last night and used 8oz of the GoodBelly (1 serving) in it. It's at 90 degrees as of 'pitching time' last night and will hold that in my fermentation chamber. If all goes well, I'll whip up the DME tomorrow and pitch the starter in there to let it sour until the weekend before boiling and then pitching the Notty again.

If this works, it will be even easier than dealing with getting the Omega yeast shipped to me.

 

[treacheroustexan]

This was such a hit at home that the keg kicked quickly. I can't get the Omega yeast locally and it's too damn hot to have it shipped right now (plus half of my state is on fire...) so I decided to do another batch but this time using GoodBelly since I've seen it locally.
Two stops later yesterday and I can't find the Goodbelly shots so I went with the full carton.
I made a starter last night and used 8oz of the GoodBelly (1 serving) in it. It's at 90 degrees as of 'pitching time' last night and will hold that in my fermentation chamber. If all goes well, I'll whip up the DME tomorrow and pitch the starter in there to let it sour until the weekend before boiling and then pitching the Notty again.

If this works, it will be even easier than dealing with getting the Omega yeast shipped to me.

I just kegged my batch I used the Goodbelly carton with yesterday. It tastes awesome! So excited for it carb up. I let it sit 3 days at 100 degrees.

 

[Kealia]

Congrats!

How much of the cartoon did you use?
Didn't make a starter or just directly pitch the GoodBelly into the wort?

 

[treacheroustexan]

Congrats!

How much of the cartoon did you use?
Didn't make a starter or just directly pitch the GoodBelly into the wort?

I didn't want to make a starter so I used 16 oz of the mango carton. Pitched right into the wort. I could have gotten away with only using 8 oz.

 

[Kealia]

It's always nice to have more data points, thanks. I used 8oz in the starter and this is only a 3G batch so I'm guessing I will be fine.

 

[Kealia]

So far, so good. I made the starter on Sunday and it seemed ready to go on Tuesday so I whipped up the DME, cooled and pitched the starter in at 90 degrees.

I've been holding it at 90 since then and tested it with ph strips this morning. The ph showed around 4.6 or so right before I pitched (according to the strips after adding lactic acid). Today the strips show 3.2. It doesn't smell like the last batch using the Omega Lacto blend, but it certainly seems like it did its job.

I can't boil until Saturday at this point so it will sit until then. I assume there is a floor where it won't go any lower over the next few days.....?

 

[RPh_Guy]

I assume there is a floor where it won't go any lower over the next few days.....?

Yep ... ~3.1(+/- 0.1).
I would turn off the heat.

 

[Kealia]

So if I kill the heat or cool it down into the 60's it will stop dropping the pH?

Would it do that on it's own? Your response seemed to indicate that it would stop at 3.1 +/-. Am I reading that right?

 

[RPh_Guy]

So if I kill the heat or cool it down into the 60's it will stop dropping the pH?

Would it do that on it's own? Your response seemed to indicate that it would stop at 3.1 +/-. Am I reading that right?

L. plantarum will continue souring in the 60s probably... Until it reaches whatever its floor is (yes, around 3.0-3.2).

Cutting of the heat will reduce oxidation and reduce growth of any contaminants.

 

[Kealia]

Thanks for your replies.
I took the safe route and am boiling tonight rather than waiting another 48 hours so I don't have to worry about it.
It's good to know that there is a stopping point, though.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Yes, I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if trillions of Lactobacilli cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced.

 

[Kealia]

Haha, well played, sir.

 

[Baja_Brewer]

I just wanted to post an update on the fastest batch of this I've made to date with 6 lbs DME for 9 gallons total - requires 2x 5 gallon kegs and heat stick.

1) Made yeast starter with 100g / 1L water. Allow to sour for 48 hrs.
2) Add 2 gallons of water to 5 gallon keg, heat to boil with heat stick, add 6 lbs DME - chill to 90F in ice/water bath. This all took <1 hr
3) Add starter after pulling some off for next round, sour for 72 hours at 85F.
4) Chill 7 gallons of water in fridge (unless you have very cool ground water that you don't feel the need to boil)
5a) Pasteurize at 180F for 30 min
5b) Add 2 gallons of pre-chilled water to drop temperature
5c) Transfer 4 gallons to second keg
5d) Top up both kegs with 2.5 gallons of pre-chilled water each
--> Step 5 only took about 15 minutes of hands on effort over about an hour and a half and doing this drastically cut down on the issues I've had in the past with chilling 4.5 gallons of pasteurized wort. The 2 gallon requirement for the souring is based on the amount of water I need to cover my heat stick.

So easy! This will make about 26 gallons I've made this summer. Flavoring with ~1.5lb of frozen raspberries is my favorite so far.

 

[Kealia]

Updating this thread now that the GoodBelly version is being consumed. It's good. And easy to get my hands on GoodBelly but I do think that the Omega Lacto string brings a bit more complexity to the final beer. Or it's my own personal tester-bias that is saying that, who knows. It could be the same way that I would expect a more traditional souring process to bring complexity to the kettle souring we're doing here, too.

In any case, it's good. If I can't get my hands on the Omega yeast, I will use this method again for sure.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Lacto-only sours vs traditional sours with Brett are like night and day. Hugely different.

I doubt different strains of L. plantarum are much different, especially when boiled/pasteurized afterward (which drives away aromatics).

 

[treacheroustexan]

Bumping this again. I’m getting ready to brew some more batches of this! First one up is gonna be with cherry juice!

 

[Localhopper]

So SWMBO really wants me to brew a blackberry sour. Never done it so I want to do it right.

For Simplicity sake, could I add the starter to the kettle, purge with CO2

Then when it’s ready boil it, purge it again and add the normal yeast into the kettle? Do everything in one kettle then just rack straight to a keg on top of blackberries?

My carboys are currently busy so thinking this may be an alternative.

 

[treacheroustexan]

So SWMBO really wants me to brew a blackberry sour. Never done it so I want to do it right.

For Simplicity sake, could I add the starter to the kettle, purge with CO2

Then when it’s ready boil it, purge it again and add the normal yeast into the kettle? Do everything in one kettle then just rack straight to a keg on top of blackberries?

My carboys are currently busy so thinking this may be an alternative.

Yep, this is what I've been doing with excellent results. As long as you can be without your kettle for a few days it works perfectly.

 

[Beer666]

Do I need a full pack of sourpitch to make a starter? I only have about a quarter of a pack left.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Do I need a full pack of sourpitch to make a starter? I only have about a quarter of a pack left.

If your making a buffered starter, Lacto pitch rate isn't very important. If you're not buffering the starter, then it's a little pointless making a starter.
To buffer, add some calcium carbonate.

 

[Beer666]

If your making a buffered starter, Lacto pitch rate isn't very important. If you're not buffering the starter, then it's a little pointless making a starter.
To buffer, add some calcium carbonate.

OK thanks. Ordered the calcium carbonate. Can I keep some to reuse like a yeast starter and is apple juice necessary? Apologies if it already in this thread, only a quarter through it. Really looking forward to trying this out.