Traditional Bock Water Profile Recipe Questions

[1bottlerocket]

Hi all,
I am setting out to make a traditional Bock beer and I wanted to ask about a water profile. I have read several seemingly conflicting articles about water profiles for bock beer and the contradictions seem to center around Cl and Na.

Here is what I put together so far. I am hoping for some feedback and/or corrections to the grain bill and mash. Thanks in advance.

Recipe Type: All Grain

Yeast
White Labs WLP833 German Bock Lager; (Liquid x5 or 27g dry yeast)
Wyeast 2206, or
Fermentis Saflager S-23

Yeast Starter
1/2 L rehydration/starter

Batch Size (liters)

26.5l - accounting for loss for 90 minute boil
Pre-Boil Gravity 1.059

Original Gravity
1.070

Final Gravity
1.018

Boiling Time (Minutes)
90

IBU
24

Color
35EBC

Primary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp)
10 days @ 10°C
Lager 4 weeks

Carbonate to 2.5 Vol CO2

Grains
4.65kg Munich Malt
2.04kg Continental Pilsener Malt

Hops
Magnum 10.0% AA 60 minute 14g
Or
85g Spalter @ 60 min
28g Spalter @ 30 min

Water profile:
Ca:75-125
Mg:10
Cl: 50-90
So4:50-150
Na: 26

Mash – 64°C 10 mins

• Single Decoction (Rest; boil) 20 mins 3l of thick mash @ 69°C 10 mins; boil 10 mins
• Return to main mash
• Hold for 25 mins @ 69°C

Boil Hop schedule
14g Magnum @60
Or
85g Spalter @ 60 min
28g Spalter @ 30 min

 

[BigEd]

You didn't mention alkalinity but with a large portion of Munich malt and this beer's Bavarian roots I'd use a modestly alkaline water with 100-200 ppm bicarbonate. I would also bring the SO4 way down to around 25 ppm.

 

[monkeymath]

The water profile looks fine to me. I'd generally lean towards Cl in favor of SO4 ina malty beer; but a Bock can really benefit from some crisp bitterness, so I think keeping them balanced should be good.

...this beer's Bavarian roots...

This beer doesn't actually have Bavarian roots. Bockbier originates - and derives its name! - from the town "Einbeck", which lies in Lower Saxony - a good deal north of Bavaria.

 

[1bottlerocket]

You didn't mention alkalinity but with a large portion of Munich malt and this beer's Bavarian roots I'd use a modestly alkaline water with 100-200 ppm bicarbonate. I would also bring the SO4 way down to around 25 ppm.

Thanks for the input. The water recommendations were all over the place and not one mentioned ph.

What ph range do you think would work to enhance the malty flavors?

 

[BigEd]

Thanks for the input. The water recommendations were all over the place and not one mentioned ph.

What ph range do you think would work to enhance the malty flavors?

The mash pH is what you need to pay attention to not the water. Using water with some alkaline qualities should provide a good mash pH range when balanced with the 70% Munich malt in the grist bill. Have you looked at the brewing water information in the Brew Science section of the forum? There is a wealth of water info there. Bringing the SO4 content down will help the malt impression of the beer.

 

[1bottlerocket]

I was just reading up on how the ph changes during the mash, boil, and fermentation. Palmer recommends a positive ra value and a mash target range of 5.3-5.5. We’re going to be building the water from the ground up so we will have to pay attention to the variables. From what I read it would seem to end up with a beer ph around 4.3-4.7 to accentuate the malt flavors.

 

[BigEd]

Yes the pH value changes throughout the process. For homebrewing purposes if you get in that mash target range the beer should be just fine. Over the last 25 years the view on water in the homebrewing community has gone from "don't worry about it" to an almost societal OCD. Pay attention to the basics, don't be concerned with hitting exact numbers, and it will be fine. Beyond that you can decide how far you want to decend into the rabbit hole.

 

[1bottlerocket]

Yes the pH value changes throughout the process. For homebrewing purposes if you get in that mash target range the beer should be just fine. Over the last 25 years the view on water in the homebrewing community has gone from "don't worry about it" to an almost societal OCD. Pay attention to the basics, don't be concerned with hitting exact numbers, and it will be fine. Beyond that you can decide how far you want to decend into the rabbit hole.

Yes, I understand that water can be a bit of an obsession. We will probably make some small adjustments to the posted recipe and go from there. We are not pouring at any festivals this year so we have some wiggle room to get things just right.