Total Infection

[erock2112]

Are you milling your grain near where you brew? Lactobacillus hides in grain husks and will definitely cause an infection if it's floating around. I'd even be careful about wearing the same clothes for milling and brewing...

 

[theredben]

Seriously guys, we have not even concluded that it is a infection. This random throwing out of off the cuff ideas is getting really confusing.

 

[stlbeer]

A couple of different thoughts on this.

You mention the problem seems to occur after transfer from primary. Is the transfer to the secondary or to keg/bottle?

Without wanting to ignite the secondary or not debate, if transfer is to secondary have you considered not doing that and leaving it as is (in primary) until fermentation is complete? It will remove a vector where something like an infection could occur. Then bottle or keg as normal. Tasting along the way will help determine where/when the problem occurs.

Second - if you are kegging and are using faucets, have you taken them off the shank and taken them apart? It is possible for them to be infected and then for that infection to spread to the kegs. Also not a bad idea to remove the shanks and all adapters and clean them all really well too. I've used a hot PBW soak, then Star San to sanitize.

Hope this helps.

 

[alx133]

well, what im saying is that the 'infection' (or just terrible flavor) happens during primary fermentation. i notice it when i go to rack the beer for secondary or kegging.
and usually dont do either because the beer is not right.

as for the grain milling lacto idea, i know what lacto tastes like and this is not it.

 

[alx133]

Seriously guys, we have not even concluded that it is a infection. This random throwing out of off the cuff ideas is getting really confusing.

its true; there is no way to really know right now. my LHBS doesnt have many experienced brewers and none of my brewing friends have been able to say whats what.

ive tried a lot of variables here. different water, different yeasts (wyeast is my go to), draconian sanitary procedures.

all thats left is an off site brew and star san.

floating mold or yeast or bacteria are really the only explanations that make any kind of sense to me. (eventhough i produced about a dozen clean beers in the same space with a less sanitary procedure)

like i said, once i get an off site brew that will be a good source of info

 

[stlbeer]

Good luck to you! Hope you figure it out soon. Sucks not knowing and none of the attempted fixes not working.

 

[alx133]

ok, so an update is due. ive been thinking way too hard about this for a while, so i scoured some podcasts on cleaning and sanitation to see if i could get any new insights when i found this episode: http://thebrewingnetwork.com/shows/...Session-03-19-06-Sanitation-w/-Charlie-Talley of the sunday session from 2OO6. now i know the session can be a lot of dicking around but this interview was really engaging and informative. also, charlie talks about how using a bleach and water mixture will most likely be at the wrong ph to be effective as a sanitizer. so i went out and got some pbw and starsan and meticulously followed the suggested ratios. brewed an ipa and im hoping for the best. so far the smell from the carboy is great with no odor of what ever was going on in all of my other beer. ill post some taste evaluations when it gets to that point. maybe another week or so.

 

[mendnwngs]

I loved that podcast, back when I first heard it.. Very informative..

I was going to suggest adding 1/4 cup white vinegar to the bleach / water mix to lower the PH, (as suggested in that podcast) as that will make the bleach a lot more effective at killing bugs, but with the PBW and star-san, you should have good luck too.

I'm trying to nail down a source of bugs myself, ( I think its the counterflow chiller in my case) and Im with you.. It can be aggravating.

Good luck!

 

[jds]

I also had a couple of bad batches in the recent past. In my case, I traced it back to storing my fermenter bucket and no-chill container partially filled with sanitizer.

I think what was happening was that the sanitizer would lose strength until something nasty could get a toehold. I realized this when I opened my no-chill container, and saw what looked like a cotton ball floating in the sanitizer. Whoops.

Since then, I've switched to stainless for no-chill cooling and glass for fermenting, and the problem resolved itself. I also started paying more attention to the dip tubes on my kegs, and I now store equipment dry and upside-down, instead of full of liquid.

 

[pfooti]

Here's hoping you've got whatever was in your system beat.

My suggestion would be to try and control for as much variability as possible. So- brew a batch with US-05 pitched straight into the primary (don't rehydrate, as long as it's a 1.055 brew that should be fine), where you don't secondary the beer. Maybe make a kit beer even, with just extract. You're not really trying to make the best beer with that kind of experiment, just remove all the other stuff like transfers, starters, milling and whatnot from the equation. Then add things back in until you get the infection again.

 

[alx133]

pfooti, thats one of the best solutions ive heard. it may just come to that. because there is no way i want to give up brewing. stepping it up like that bit by bit sounds like the way to hit it.

 

[astropunk]

I would suggest buying starsan and using that to sanitize instead of bleach. The bleach smell & taste could also linger into your brew. I would also sanitize your chiller in a bucket before putting it into the wort. I know many people just boil them clean, but I like to sanitize mine. Also try using a packet of dry yeast. Like pfooti says, its a process of elimination. Another option is to try bottled spring water if you are using tap water.

 

[astropunk]

Doh! I shoulda read to the end of this thread before replying.

Here's hoping you figured it out, and get a good batch!

 

[alx133]

transferred my citra ipa to a keg today. brewed with the same process in the same space but with five star cleaning/sanitizing products in place of bleach and water solution. beer tasted excellent.

so, ive learned that i am not a chemist and that i should understand that part of brewing maybe a bit more as its been months since ive been able to brew a clean batch.

thanks for the help all.

 

[Burgs]

... a Citra-flavored happy ending!

 

[Boodlemania]

Great news! Glad to hear you (hopefully) solved the problem.